Duncan's retirement: who's taking over Rtools?

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Duncan's retirement: who's taking over Rtools?

Joris FA Meys
Dear dev team,

I was sorry to see the announcement of Duncan about his retirement from
maintaining the R Windows build and Rtools. Duncan, thank you incredibly
much for your 15 years of devotion and your impressive contribution to the
R community as a whole.

Thinking about the future, I wondered whether there were plans for the
succession of Duncan. Is it the intention to continue providing Rtools and
a Windows build, or are these tasks left open for anyone (possibly
Microsoft itself) to take them over? And if so, how will the decision be
made on that?

Cheers
Joris
--
-----------

Biowiskundedagen 2017-2018
http://www.biowiskundedagen.ugent.be/

-----------

Joris Meys
Statistical consultant

Ghent University
Faculty of Bioscience Engineering
Department of Mathematical Modelling, Statistics and Bio-Informatics

tel :  +32 (0)9 264 61 79
[hidden email]
-------------------------------
Disclaimer : http://helpdesk.ugent.be/e-maildisclaimer.php

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Re: Duncan's retirement: who's taking over Rtools?

R devel mailing list
Likewise, a hearty THANK YOU from me and the rest of the team at Microsoft for all the work you, Duncan, have put into making R available for Windows users around the world over the past 15 years. I know it wasn't easy (Windows is not without its quirks), but R users everywhere, ourselves included, are deeply appreciative and have benefited greatly.

The Microsoft R team is willing and able to produce builds for R on Windows going forward. As Duncan noted, we've been doing this already for some time for MRAN. I'd love to hear thoughts from this community on what that might mean, and Duncan I'll also reach out to you directly off-list.

Cheers,
# David  

-----Original Message-----
From: R-devel [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Joris Meys
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 08:28
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Rd] Duncan's retirement: who's taking over Rtools?

Dear dev team,

I was sorry to see the announcement of Duncan about his retirement from maintaining the R Windows build and Rtools. Duncan, thank you incredibly much for your 15 years of devotion and your impressive contribution to the R community as a whole.

Thinking about the future, I wondered whether there were plans for the succession of Duncan. Is it the intention to continue providing Rtools and a Windows build, or are these tasks left open for anyone (possibly Microsoft itself) to take them over? And if so, how will the decision be made on that?

Cheers
Joris
--
-----------

Biowiskundedagen 2017-2018
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.biowiskundedagen.ugent.be%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cdavidsmi%40microsoft.com%7C2fd515da9138451611b508d50685822b%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636422092884858146&sdata=BK7GESC6ladsk6cig0ima%2BbdV1sQ5Gdeng%2BhWvtgwj4%3D&reserved=0

-----------

Joris Meys
Statistical consultant

Ghent University
Faculty of Bioscience Engineering
Department of Mathematical Modelling, Statistics and Bio-Informatics

tel :  +32 (0)9 264 61 79
[hidden email]
-------------------------------
Disclaimer : https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhelpdesk.ugent.be%2Fe-maildisclaimer.php&data=02%7C01%7Cdavidsmi%40microsoft.com%7C2fd515da9138451611b508d50685822b%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636422092884858146&sdata=PFbW9gv7%2Byi6puj42LyWHPPBqeYd83L3oQunaLTTSnw%3D&reserved=0

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Re: Duncan's retirement: who's taking over Rtools?

Avraham Adler
In reply to this post by Joris FA Meys
On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Joris Meys <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear dev team,
>
> I was sorry to see the announcement of Duncan about his retirement from
> maintaining the R Windows build and Rtools. Duncan, thank you incredibly
> much for your 15 years of devotion and your impressive contribution to the
> R community as a whole.
>
> Thinking about the future, I wondered whether there were plans for the
> succession of Duncan. Is it the intention to continue providing Rtools and
> a Windows build, or are these tasks left open for anyone (possibly
> Microsoft itself) to take them over? And if so, how will the decision be
> made on that?
>

Always willing to volunteer someone else, my first thoughts would be
to contact Jeroen Ooms and Kevin Ushey. Both, especially Jeroen, were
integral to the successful deployemnt of the 4.9.3 version of Rtools.

Avi

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Re: Duncan's retirement: who's taking over Rtools?

Avraham Adler
In reply to this post by R devel mailing list
On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 11:47 AM, David Smith via R-devel
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> The Microsoft R team is willing and able to produce builds for R on Windows going forward. As Duncan noted, we've been doing this already for some time for MRAN. I'd love to hear thoughts from this community on what that might mean, and Duncan I'll also reach out to you directly off-list.

Hi, David.

If the Microsoft R team takes over that responsibility, will they also
take over the testing and maintenance of the scripts for building R
from source on Windows as Duncan has?

Thanks,

Avi

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Re: Duncan's retirement: who's taking over Rtools?

Martyn Plummer-3
In reply to this post by R devel mailing list
David,

I think ideally we want to appoint a single person to take primary
responsibility for the Windows builds. We are currently discussing this
within R Core.

We also recognize that Microsoft is a stakeholder in R for Windows. The
same is true of other members of the R Consortium. Going forward, it
would be useful if all stakeholders could contribute to both support
and strategic discussions in this area.

best
Martyn

On Thu, 2017-09-28 at 15:47 +0000, David Smith via R-devel wrote:

> Likewise, a hearty THANK YOU from me and the rest of the team at
> Microsoft for all the work you, Duncan, have put into making R
> available for Windows users around the world over the past 15 years.
> I know it wasn't easy (Windows is not without its quirks), but R
> users everywhere, ourselves included, are deeply appreciative and
> have benefited greatly.
>
> The Microsoft R team is willing and able to produce builds for R on
> Windows going forward. As Duncan noted, we've been doing this already
> for some time for MRAN. I'd love to hear thoughts from this community
> on what that might mean, and Duncan I'll also reach out to you
> directly off-list.
>
> Cheers,
> # David  
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: R-devel [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Joris Meys
> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 08:28
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Rd] Duncan's retirement: who's taking over Rtools?
>
> Dear dev team,
>
> I was sorry to see the announcement of Duncan about his retirement
> from maintaining the R Windows build and Rtools. Duncan, thank you
> incredibly much for your 15 years of devotion and your impressive
> contribution to the R community as a whole.
>
> Thinking about the future, I wondered whether there were plans for
> the succession of Duncan. Is it the intention to continue providing
> Rtools and a Windows build, or are these tasks left open for anyone
> (possibly Microsoft itself) to take them over? And if so, how will
> the decision be made on that?
>
> Cheers
> Joris
> --
> -----------
>
> Biowiskundedagen 2017-2018
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.b
> iowiskundedagen.ugent.be%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cdavidsmi%40microsoft.com%7
> C2fd515da9138451611b508d50685822b%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%
> 7C1%7C0%7C636422092884858146&sdata=BK7GESC6ladsk6cig0ima%2BbdV1sQ5Gde
> ng%2BhWvtgwj4%3D&reserved=0
>
> -----------
>
> Joris Meys
> Statistical consultant
>
> Ghent University
> Faculty of Bioscience Engineering
> Department of Mathematical Modelling, Statistics and Bio-Informatics
>
> tel :  +32 (0)9 264 61 79
> [hidden email]
> -------------------------------
> Disclaimer : <a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%">https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%
> 3A%2F%2Fhelpdesk.ugent.be%2Fe-
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> C636422092884858146&sdata=PFbW9gv7%2Byi6puj42LyWHPPBqeYd83L3oQunaLTTS
> nw%3D&reserved=0
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> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
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Re: Duncan's retirement: who's taking over Rtools?

R devel mailing list
In reply to this post by R devel mailing list
I think that even though some Microsoft employees may have good intentions Microsoft as a company can not be trusted. There will be always a danger that they will try to create their own version of R which works only on Windows and that will become increasingly divergent from "other" R. We witnessed such (cursed in my opinion) attempts with their treatment of Java and Internet Explorer. So I think that if we want to keep R as one language it is very important that the person(s) responsible for R on Windows will have no association with Microsoft.
Best regards,Moshe.
 

    On Friday, 29 September 2017, 1:47:36 am GMT+10, David Smith via R-devel <[hidden email]> wrote:  
 
 Likewise, a hearty THANK YOU from me and the rest of the team at Microsoft for all the work you, Duncan, have put into making R available for Windows users around the world over the past 15 years. I know it wasn't easy (Windows is not without its quirks), but R users everywhere, ourselves included, are deeply appreciative and have benefited greatly.

The Microsoft R team is willing and able to produce builds for R on Windows going forward. As Duncan noted, we've been doing this already for some time for MRAN. I'd love to hear thoughts from this community on what that might mean, and Duncan I'll also reach out to you directly off-list.

Cheers,
# David 

-----Original Message-----
From: R-devel [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Joris Meys
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 08:28
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Rd] Duncan's retirement: who's taking over Rtools?

Dear dev team,

I was sorry to see the announcement of Duncan about his retirement from maintaining the R Windows build and Rtools. Duncan, thank you incredibly much for your 15 years of devotion and your impressive contribution to the R community as a whole.

Thinking about the future, I wondered whether there were plans for the succession of Duncan. Is it the intention to continue providing Rtools and a Windows build, or are these tasks left open for anyone (possibly Microsoft itself) to take them over? And if so, how will the decision be made on that?

Cheers
Joris
--
-----------

Biowiskundedagen 2017-2018
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.biowiskundedagen.ugent.be%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cdavidsmi%40microsoft.com%7C2fd515da9138451611b508d50685822b%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636422092884858146&sdata=BK7GESC6ladsk6cig0ima%2BbdV1sQ5Gdeng%2BhWvtgwj4%3D&reserved=0

-----------

Joris Meys
Statistical consultant

Ghent University
Faculty of Bioscience Engineering
Department of Mathematical Modelling, Statistics and Bio-Informatics

tel :  +32 (0)9 264 61 79
[hidden email]
-------------------------------
Disclaimer : https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhelpdesk.ugent.be%2Fe-maildisclaimer.php&data=02%7C01%7Cdavidsmi%40microsoft.com%7C2fd515da9138451611b508d50685822b%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636422092884858146&sdata=PFbW9gv7%2Byi6puj42LyWHPPBqeYd83L3oQunaLTTSnw%3D&reserved=0

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Re: Duncan's retirement: who's taking over Rtools?

Spencer Graves-3
       I concur with Moshe.  David and his team have done great thing
for R, but a lion will not become a vegetarian.  I think that any
reasonable reading of Microsoft's history will supports that
perspective.  However, this is a fairly well documented phenomenon far
beyond Microsoft.  Jean Tirole won the 2014 Nobel Memorial Prize in
Economics for establishing that, especially regarding
telecommunications.[1]  It is unwise to permit too much power to be held
too tightly.


       Spencer Graves, PhD
       Founder
       EffectiveDefense.org
       7300 W. 107th St. # 506
       Overland Park, KS 66212


[1] See the discussion of this and the related work of Eli Noam in the
Wikiversity article on "Net neutrality and 'Restoring Internet freedom'"
(https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Net_neutrality_and_%27Restoring_Internet_freedom%27).



On 2017-09-28 7:03 PM, Moshe Olshansky via R-devel wrote:

> I think that even though some Microsoft employees may have good intentions Microsoft as a company can not be trusted. There will be always a danger that they will try to create their own version of R which works only on Windows and that will become increasingly divergent from "other" R. We witnessed such (cursed in my opinion) attempts with their treatment of Java and Internet Explorer. So I think that if we want to keep R as one language it is very important that the person(s) responsible for R on Windows will have no association with Microsoft.
> Best regards,Moshe.
>  
>
>      On Friday, 29 September 2017, 1:47:36 am GMT+10, David Smith via R-devel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>   Likewise, a hearty THANK YOU from me and the rest of the team at Microsoft for all the work you, Duncan, have put into making R available for Windows users around the world over the past 15 years. I know it wasn't easy (Windows is not without its quirks), but R users everywhere, ourselves included, are deeply appreciative and have benefited greatly.
>
> The Microsoft R team is willing and able to produce builds for R on Windows going forward. As Duncan noted, we've been doing this already for some time for MRAN. I'd love to hear thoughts from this community on what that might mean, and Duncan I'll also reach out to you directly off-list.
>
> Cheers,
> # David
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: R-devel [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Joris Meys
> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 08:28
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Rd] Duncan's retirement: who's taking over Rtools?
>
> Dear dev team,
>
> I was sorry to see the announcement of Duncan about his retirement from maintaining the R Windows build and Rtools. Duncan, thank you incredibly much for your 15 years of devotion and your impressive contribution to the R community as a whole.
>
> Thinking about the future, I wondered whether there were plans for the succession of Duncan. Is it the intention to continue providing Rtools and a Windows build, or are these tasks left open for anyone (possibly Microsoft itself) to take them over? And if so, how will the decision be made on that?
>
> Cheers
> Joris
> --
> -----------
>
> Biowiskundedagen 2017-2018
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.biowiskundedagen.ugent.be%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cdavidsmi%40microsoft.com%7C2fd515da9138451611b508d50685822b%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636422092884858146&sdata=BK7GESC6ladsk6cig0ima%2BbdV1sQ5Gdeng%2BhWvtgwj4%3D&reserved=0
>
> -----------
>
> Joris Meys
> Statistical consultant
>
> Ghent University
> Faculty of Bioscience Engineering
> Department of Mathematical Modelling, Statistics and Bio-Informatics
>
> tel :  +32 (0)9 264 61 79
> [hidden email]
> -------------------------------
> Disclaimer : https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhelpdesk.ugent.be%2Fe-maildisclaimer.php&data=02%7C01%7Cdavidsmi%40microsoft.com%7C2fd515da9138451611b508d50685822b%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636422092884858146&sdata=PFbW9gv7%2Byi6puj42LyWHPPBqeYd83L3oQunaLTTSnw%3D&reserved=0
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Re: Duncan's retirement: who's taking over Rtools?

Juan Telleria
I agree with Moshe.

It is important to maintain the independence of R as a programming language
by itselft, even if it could benefit from Microsoft work (C++ Base Code,
etc.), it is better in my opinion to keep it independent.

Also, Duncan work and know-how shall be transferred to the next future R
Core Developer which will be in charge of Duncan's roles. And, if
appropriate, transfer the scripts Duncan might use, the documentation, etc.

Thank you,
Juan

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Re: Duncan's retirement: who's taking over Rtools?

Juan Telleria
The Apache Foundation has a whole article stating that open source projects
shall be managed and used independently of any commercial interest:

https://community.apache.org/projectIndependence.html

So Microsoft could donate, if interested, money or other resources for such
specific role, but always taking special care of company interest
independence.

Juan



El 29/9/2017 2:23 p. m., "Juan Telleria" <[hidden email]> escribió:

> I agree with Moshe.
>
> It is important to maintain the independence of R as a programming
> language by itselft, even if it could benefit from Microsoft work (C++ Base
> Code, etc.), it is better in my opinion to keep it independent.
>
> Also, Duncan work and know-how shall be transferred to the next future R
> Core Developer which will be in charge of Duncan's roles. And, if
> appropriate, transfer the scripts Duncan might use, the documentation, etc.
>
> Thank you,
> Juan
>

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