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OT --- grammar.

Rolf Turner

Does/should one say "the degrees of freedom is defined to be" or "the
degrees of freedom are defined to be"?

Although value of "degrees of freedom" is a single number, the first
formulation sounds very odd to my ear.

I would like to call upon the collective wisdom of the R community to
help me decide.

Thanks, and my apologies for the off-topic post.

cheers,

Rolf Turner

--
Technical Editor ANZJS
Department of Statistics
University of Auckland
Phone: +64-9-373-7599 ext. 88276

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Re: OT --- grammar.

Duncan Murdoch-2
On 24/06/2018 5:46 PM, Rolf Turner wrote:

>
> Does/should one say "the degrees of freedom is defined to be" or "the
> degrees of freedom are defined to be"?
>
> Although value of "degrees of freedom" is a single number, the first
> formulation sounds very odd to my ear.
>
> I would like to call upon the collective wisdom of the R community to
> help me decide.
>
> Thanks, and my apologies for the off-topic post.

I'd agree with you:  "are".

Duncan Murdoch

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Re: OT --- grammar.

Hasan Diwan-2
In reply to this post by Rolf Turner
On Sun, 24 Jun 2018 at 14:46, Rolf Turner <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Does/should one say "the degrees of freedom is defined to be" or "the
> degrees of freedom are defined to be"?

"are", the noun in your statement is "degrees", while the fragment "of
freedom" acts as an adjective, narrowing the scope of the term
"degrees". Hope that helps... -- H
--
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Re: OT --- grammar.

plangfelder
In reply to this post by Rolf Turner
I would use "the number of degrees of freedom is defined... ".

Peter
On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 2:46 PM Rolf Turner <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Does/should one say "the degrees of freedom is defined to be" or "the
> degrees of freedom are defined to be"?
>
> Although value of "degrees of freedom" is a single number, the first
> formulation sounds very odd to my ear.
>
> I would like to call upon the collective wisdom of the R community to
> help me decide.
>
> Thanks, and my apologies for the off-topic post.
>
> cheers,
>
> Rolf Turner
>
> --
> Technical Editor ANZJS
> Department of Statistics
> University of Auckland
> Phone: +64-9-373-7599 ext. 88276
>
> ______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.

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JRG
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Re: OT --- grammar.

JRG
In reply to this post by Rolf Turner
(I suspect there will be much disagreement about "is" vs. "are".)

I'd say something like "the parameter degrees of freedom is defined to
be ..."

---JRG



On 06/24/2018 05:46 PM, Rolf Turner wrote:

>
> Does/should one say "the degrees of freedom is defined to be" or "the
> degrees of freedom are defined to be"?
>
> Although value of "degrees of freedom" is a single number, the first
> formulation sounds very odd to my ear.
>
> I would like to call upon the collective wisdom of the R community to
> help me decide.
>
> Thanks, and my apologies for the off-topic post.
>
> cheers,
>
> Rolf Turner
>

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Re: OT --- grammar.

Ted Harding
In reply to this post by Rolf Turner
On Mon, 2018-06-25 at 09:46 +1200, Rolf Turner wrote:

> Does/should one say "the degrees of freedom is defined to be" or "the
> degrees of freedom are defined to be"?
>
> Although value of "degrees of freedom" is a single number, the first
> formulation sounds very odd to my ear.
>
> I would like to call upon the collective wisdom of the R community to
> help me decide.
>
> Thanks, and my apologies for the off-topic post.
>
> cheers,
> Rolf Turner

Interesting question, Rolf!
>From my point of view. I see "degrees of freedon" as a plural noun,
because of "degrees". But in some cases, we have only 1 degree of
freedon. Then the degrees of freedon is 1.

But we do not say, in that case, "the degree of freedom is defined
to be", or the degree of freedom are 1"

Nor would we say "The degrees of freedom are 19".!

So I thonk that the solution is to encapsulate the term within
aingle quotes, so that it becomes a singular entity. Thus:

The 'degrees of freedom' is defined to be ... "; and
The 'degrees of freedom' is 1.
Or
The degrees of freedom' is 19.

This is not the same issue as (one of my prime hates) saying
"the data is srored in the dataframe ... ". "Data" is a
plural noun (ainguler "datum"), and I would insist on
"the data are stored ... ". The French use "une donnee" and
"les donnees"; the Germans use "ein Datum", "der Daten";
so they know what they're doing! English-speakers mostly do not"

Best wishes to all,
Ted.

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Re: OT --- grammar.

Bert Gunter-2
Ted, et. al.:

Re: "Data is" vs "data are" ... Heh heh!

"This is the kind of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put."
(Attributed to Churchill in one form or another, likely wrongly.)

See here for some semi-authoritative dicussion:

http://www.onlinegrammar.com.au/top-10-grammar-myths-data-is-plural-so-must-take-a-plural-verb/

Cheers,
Bert



Bert Gunter

"The trouble with having an open mind is that people keep coming along and
sticking things into it."
-- Opus (aka Berkeley Breathed in his "Bloom County" comic strip )

On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 3:44 PM, Ted Harding <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On Mon, 2018-06-25 at 09:46 +1200, Rolf Turner wrote:
> > Does/should one say "the degrees of freedom is defined to be" or "the
> > degrees of freedom are defined to be"?
> >
> > Although value of "degrees of freedom" is a single number, the first
> > formulation sounds very odd to my ear.
> >
> > I would like to call upon the collective wisdom of the R community to
> > help me decide.
> >
> > Thanks, and my apologies for the off-topic post.
> >
> > cheers,
> > Rolf Turner
>
> Interesting question, Rolf!
> >From my point of view. I see "degrees of freedon" as a plural noun,
> because of "degrees". But in some cases, we have only 1 degree of
> freedon. Then the degrees of freedon is 1.
>
> But we do not say, in that case, "the degree of freedom is defined
> to be", or the degree of freedom are 1"
>
> Nor would we say "The degrees of freedom are 19".!
>
> So I thonk that the solution is to encapsulate the term within
> aingle quotes, so that it becomes a singular entity. Thus:
>
> The 'degrees of freedom' is defined to be ... "; and
> The 'degrees of freedom' is 1.
> Or
> The degrees of freedom' is 19.
>
> This is not the same issue as (one of my prime hates) saying
> "the data is srored in the dataframe ... ". "Data" is a
> plural noun (ainguler "datum"), and I would insist on
> "the data are stored ... ". The French use "une donnee" and
> "les donnees"; the Germans use "ein Datum", "der Daten";
> so they know what they're doing! English-speakers mostly do not"
>
> Best wishes to all,
> Ted.
>
> ______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/
> posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>

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Re: OT --- grammar.

JRG

On 06/24/2018 08:03 PM, Bert Gunter wrote:

> Ted, et. al.:
>
> Re: "Data is" vs "data are" ... Heh heh!
>
> "This is the kind of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put."
> (Attributed to Churchill in one form or another, likely wrongly.)
>
> See here for some semi-authoritative dicussion:
>
> http://www.onlinegrammar.com.au/top-10-grammar-myths-data-is-plural-so-must-take-a-plural-verb/


Hmmm.  "semi-authoritative or not", the 1980 Edition of the Oxford
American dictionary says:

"data (day-ta) n. pl. facts or information ...  'Data' should not be
used with a singular verb, as in 'the data is inconclusive'; it is by
origin a Latin plural (the singular is 'datum') and should be used with
a plural verb. ..."


Interesting how Latin seemed to have changed in the past 40 or so years.


---JRG

John R. Gleason



>
> Cheers,
> Bert
>
>
>
> Bert Gunter
>
> "The trouble with having an open mind is that people keep coming along and
> sticking things into it."
> -- Opus (aka Berkeley Breathed in his "Bloom County" comic strip )
>
> On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 3:44 PM, Ted Harding <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 2018-06-25 at 09:46 +1200, Rolf Turner wrote:
>>> Does/should one say "the degrees of freedom is defined to be" or "the
>>> degrees of freedom are defined to be"?
>>>
>>> Although value of "degrees of freedom" is a single number, the first
>>> formulation sounds very odd to my ear.
>>>
>>> I would like to call upon the collective wisdom of the R community to
>>> help me decide.
>>>
>>> Thanks, and my apologies for the off-topic post.
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>> Rolf Turner
>>
>> Interesting question, Rolf!
>> >From my point of view. I see "degrees of freedon" as a plural noun,
>> because of "degrees". But in some cases, we have only 1 degree of
>> freedon. Then the degrees of freedon is 1.
>>
>> But we do not say, in that case, "the degree of freedom is defined
>> to be", or the degree of freedom are 1"
>>
>> Nor would we say "The degrees of freedom are 19".!
>>
>> So I thonk that the solution is to encapsulate the term within
>> aingle quotes, so that it becomes a singular entity. Thus:
>>
>> The 'degrees of freedom' is defined to be ... "; and
>> The 'degrees of freedom' is 1.
>> Or
>> The degrees of freedom' is 19.
>>
>> This is not the same issue as (one of my prime hates) saying
>> "the data is srored in the dataframe ... ". "Data" is a
>> plural noun (ainguler "datum"), and I would insist on
>> "the data are stored ... ". The French use "une donnee" and
>> "les donnees"; the Germans use "ein Datum", "der Daten";
>> so they know what they're doing! English-speakers mostly do not"
>>
>> Best wishes to all,
>> Ted.
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> [hidden email] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/
>> posting-guide.html
>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>>
>
> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>
> ______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>

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Re: OT --- grammar.

Rolf Turner
In reply to this post by Bert Gunter-2
On 25/06/18 12:03, Bert Gunter wrote:

> Ted, et. al.:
>
> Re: "Data is" vs "data are" ... Heh heh!
>
> "This is the kind of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put."
> (Attributed to Churchill in one form or another, likely wrongly.)
>
> See here for some semi-authoritative dicussion:
>
> http://www.onlinegrammar.com.au/top-10-grammar-myths-data-is-plural-so-must-take-a-plural-verb/

I beg to differ.  "The data was out of date" sounds just plain stupid to
my sensitive ears.

It's rather like using the phrase "begs the question" to mean "raises
the question" or "invites the question" rather than to carry its
*correct* meaning of "assumes what is to be proved".  The fact that the
phrase is almost always used in its *incorrect* sense these days, and
almost never in its *correct* sense, does not diminish the fact that
those who use it incorrectly are ignorant scumbags!  The language is
weakened and diminished by the encroachment of incorrect usage.

cheers,

Rolf


--
Technical Editor ANZJS
Department of Statistics
University of Auckland
Phone: +64-9-373-7599 ext. 88276

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Re: OT --- grammar.

Michael Sumner-2
No it isn't. Your stature is diminished by hateful behaviour.

Cheers, Mike

On Mon, 25 Jun 2018, 07:26 Rolf Turner, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 25/06/18 12:03, Bert Gunter wrote:
> > Ted, et. al.:
> >
> > Re: "Data is" vs "data are" ... Heh heh!
> >
> > "This is the kind of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put."
> > (Attributed to Churchill in one form or another, likely wrongly.)
> >
> > See here for some semi-authoritative dicussion:
> >
> >
> http://www.onlinegrammar.com.au/top-10-grammar-myths-data-is-plural-so-must-take-a-plural-verb/
>
> I beg to differ.  "The data was out of date" sounds just plain stupid to
> my sensitive ears.
>
> It's rather like using the phrase "begs the question" to mean "raises
> the question" or "invites the question" rather than to carry its
> *correct* meaning of "assumes what is to be proved".  The fact that the
> phrase is almost always used in its *incorrect* sense these days, and
> almost never in its *correct* sense, does not diminish the fact that
> those who use it incorrectly are ignorant scumbags!  The language is
> weakened and diminished by the encroachment of incorrect usage.
>
>
>
> cheers,
>
> Rolf
>
>
> --
> Technical Editor ANZJS
> Department of Statistics
> University of Auckland
> Phone: +64-9-373-7599 ext. 88276
>
> ______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>
--
Dr. Michael Sumner
Software and Database Engineer
Australian Antarctic Division
203 Channel Highway
Kingston Tasmania 7050 Australia

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Re: OT --- grammar.

John McKown
On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 8:08 PM Michael Sumner <[hidden email]> wrote:

> No it isn't. Your stature is diminished by hateful behaviour.
>

​I will most likely also be labelled "hateful" for saying this, but I found
Rolf's post to be accurate, although phrased in a bit of an elitist way.​
Being a bit of a grammar Nazi (I may as well label myself as others likely
will), I sometimes come across as elitist as well. I am come across this
way because in any scientific endeavour, under which I include programming,
precision and accuracy is the top priority. Because if people think that
_I_ am a grammar Nazi, they haven't run into very many compilers
(especially for the archaic language COBOL) who will simply refuse to
compile something which doesn't make sense according to _its_ rules.

However, unlike Rolf, I do not take offense when people use idiomatic
expressions or even make up phrases on an English speaking mailing list
(English not being any kind of pristine, planned, language). So long as I
can puzzle it out, it is good to me. If I can't puzzle it out, I ignore it.

​My apologies to Dr. Sumner for originally sending this to him directly.
That was my error in not double checking that "reply" went to the proper
recipient. ​



>
> Cheers, Mike
>
> On Mon, 25 Jun 2018, 07:26 Rolf Turner, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On 25/06/18 12:03, Bert Gunter wrote:
> > > Ted, et. al.:
> > >
> > > Re: "Data is" vs "data are" ... Heh heh!
> > >
> > > "This is the kind of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put."
> > > (Attributed to Churchill in one form or another, likely wrongly.)
> > >
> > > See here for some semi-authoritative dicussion:
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.onlinegrammar.com.au/top-10-grammar-myths-data-is-plural-so-must-take-a-plural-verb/
> >
> > I beg to differ.  "The data was out of date" sounds just plain stupid to
> > my sensitive ears.
> >
> > It's rather like using the phrase "begs the question" to mean "raises
> > the question" or "invites the question" rather than to carry its
> > *correct* meaning of "assumes what is to be proved".  The fact that the
> > phrase is almost always used in its *incorrect* sense these days, and
> > almost never in its *correct* sense, does not diminish the fact that
> > those who use it incorrectly are ignorant scumbags!  The language is
> > weakened and diminished by the encroachment of incorrect usage.
> >
> >
> >
> > cheers,
> >
> > Rolf
> >
> >
> > --
> > Technical Editor ANZJS
> > Department of Statistics
> > University of Auckland
> > Phone: +64-9-373-7599 ext. 88276
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > [hidden email] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> > PLEASE do read the posting guide
> > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
> >
> --
> Dr. Michael Sumner
> Software and Database Engineer
> Australian Antarctic Division
> 203 Channel Highway
> Kingston Tasmania 7050 Australia
>
>         [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>
> ______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
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> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>


--
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Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: OT --- grammar.

JohnDee
In reply to this post by Rolf Turner
On Mon, 25 Jun 2018 09:46:07 +1200
Rolf Turner <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Does/should one say "the degrees of freedom is defined to be" or "the
> degrees of freedom are defined to be"?
>
I've leaned to differentiating between one degree of freedom and
multiple degrees of freedom and, when needed, phrase what I write
accordingly.  Canned phrases in the output of a routine may use
"degrees" simply because most of the time there are multiple degrees of
freedom.  After all, the only time "degree of freedom" would be
appropriate would be when there is just one.

JWDougherty

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Re: OT --- grammar.

JohnDee
In reply to this post by JRG
On Sun, 24 Jun 2018 20:16:24 -0400
JRG <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 06/24/2018 08:03 PM, Bert Gunter wrote:
> > Ted, et. al.:
> >
> > Re: "Data is" vs "data are" ... Heh heh!
> >
> > "This is the kind of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put."
> > (Attributed to Churchill in one form or another, likely wrongly.)
> >
> > See here for some semi-authoritative dicussion:
> >
> > http://www.onlinegrammar.com.au/top-10-grammar-myths-data-is-plural-so-must-take-a-plural-verb/ 
>
>
> Hmmm.  "semi-authoritative or not", the 1980 Edition of the Oxford
> American dictionary says:
>
> "data (day-ta) n. pl. facts or information ...  'Data' should not be
> used with a singular verb, as in 'the data is inconclusive'; it is by
> origin a Latin plural (the singular is 'datum') and should be used
> with a plural verb. ..."
>
>
> Interesting how Latin seemed to have changed in the past 40 or so
> years.
>
In fact, "the data are/is inconclusive" is shorthand for a longer
sentence.  Data are merely observations.  It is only after they are
made and summarized that a conclusion might be reached.  In which
case it was the analysis of the data that was inconclusive.  Since many
analyses of a single data set can be conducted and they are not
necessarily all going to be inconclusive, it really never was the data
that were inconclusive.

JWDoughetry

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Re: OT --- grammar.

David Winsemius
I’m surprised no on has reference the F distribution where the degrees of freedom are manifestly plural.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 25, 2018, at 6:05 PM, John <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 24 Jun 2018 20:16:24 -0400
> JRG <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>> On 06/24/2018 08:03 PM, Bert Gunter wrote:
>>> Ted, et. al.:
>>>
>>> Re: "Data is" vs "data are" ... Heh heh!
>>>
>>> "This is the kind of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put."
>>> (Attributed to Churchill in one form or another, likely wrongly.)
>>>
>>> See here for some semi-authoritative dicussion:
>>>
>>> http://www.onlinegrammar.com.au/top-10-grammar-myths-data-is-plural-so-must-take-a-plural-verb/ 
>>
>>
>> Hmmm.  "semi-authoritative or not", the 1980 Edition of the Oxford
>> American dictionary says:
>>
>> "data (day-ta) n. pl. facts or information ...  'Data' should not be
>> used with a singular verb, as in 'the data is inconclusive'; it is by
>> origin a Latin plural (the singular is 'datum') and should be used
>> with a plural verb. ..."
>>
>>
>> Interesting how Latin seemed to have changed in the past 40 or so
>> years.
>>
> In fact, "the data are/is inconclusive" is shorthand for a longer
> sentence.  Data are merely observations.  It is only after they are
> made and summarized that a conclusion might be reached.  In which
> case it was the analysis of the data that was inconclusive.  Since many
> analyses of a single data set can be conducted and they are not
> necessarily all going to be inconclusive, it really never was the data
> that were inconclusive.
>
> JWDoughetry
>
> ______________________________________________
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Re: OT --- grammar.

Patrick Connolly-4
In reply to this post by Rolf Turner
How about "Physics / politics / economics are my favoruite subject"?

Might be fun to see how long we could make that list.  It seems to be
a fact of life that it's impossible to make a (useful) language that
has totally consistent grammar.  

Something else to consider:I knew an English teacher who frowned on
what Rolf wrote (to quote) "...almost never .. "  which *should be*
"... hardly ever ... "

How boring it would be if we all agreed. :-)

On Mon, 25-Jun-2018 at 12:16PM +1200, Rolf Turner wrote:

|> On 25/06/18 12:03, Bert Gunter wrote:
|> >Ted, et. al.:
|> >
|> >Re: "Data is" vs "data are" ... Heh heh!
|> >
|> >"This is the kind of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put."
|> >(Attributed to Churchill in one form or another, likely wrongly.)
|> >
|> >See here for some semi-authoritative dicussion:
|> >
|> >http://www.onlinegrammar.com.au/top-10-grammar-myths-data-is-plural-so-must-take-a-plural-verb/
|>
|> I beg to differ.  "The data was out of date" sounds just plain
|> stupid to my sensitive ears.
|>
|> It's rather like using the phrase "begs the question" to mean
|> "raises the question" or "invites the question" rather than to
|> carry its *correct* meaning of "assumes what is to be proved".  The
|> fact that the phrase is almost always used in its *incorrect* sense
|> these days, and almost never in its *correct* sense, does not
|> diminish the fact that those who use it incorrectly are ignorant
|> scumbags!  The language is weakened and diminished by the
|> encroachment of incorrect usage.
|>
|> cheers,
|>
|> Rolf
|>
|>
|> --
|> Technical Editor ANZJS
|> Department of Statistics
|> University of Auckland
|> Phone: +64-9-373-7599 ext. 88276
|>
|> ______________________________________________
|> [hidden email] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
|> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
|> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
|> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.

--
~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.  
   ___    Patrick Connolly  
 {~._.~}                   Great minds discuss ideas    
 _( Y )_           Average minds discuss events
(:_~*~_:)                  Small minds discuss people  
 (_)-(_)                        ..... Eleanor Roosevelt
         
~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.

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Re: OT --- grammar.

Bert Gunter-2
No substantive comment.

But your addendum does bring to mind Gilbert and Sullivan (HMS Pinafore):

"
I am never known to quail At the fury of a gale, And I'm never, never sick
at sea! Chorus. What, never? Captain. No, never! Chorus. What, never?
Captain. Hardly ever! "

https://www.letssingit.com/gilbert-and-sullivan-lyrics-my-gallant-crew-good-morning-fv97wfr
LetsSingIt - The Internet Lyrics Database

Cheers,
Bert


Bert Gunter

"The trouble with having an open mind is that people keep coming along and
sticking things into it."
-- Opus (aka Berkeley Breathed in his "Bloom County" comic strip )

On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 2:09 AM, Patrick Connolly <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> How about "Physics / politics / economics are my favoruite subject"?
>
> Might be fun to see how long we could make that list.  It seems to be
> a fact of life that it's impossible to make a (useful) language that
> has totally consistent grammar.
>
> Something else to consider:I knew an English teacher who frowned on
> what Rolf wrote (to quote) "...almost never .. "  which *should be*
> "... hardly ever ... "
>
> How boring it would be if we all agreed. :-)
>
> On Mon, 25-Jun-2018 at 12:16PM +1200, Rolf Turner wrote:
>
> |> On 25/06/18 12:03, Bert Gunter wrote:
> |> >Ted, et. al.:
> |> >
> |> >Re: "Data is" vs "data are" ... Heh heh!
> |> >
> |> >"This is the kind of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put."
> |> >(Attributed to Churchill in one form or another, likely wrongly.)
> |> >
> |> >See here for some semi-authoritative dicussion:
> |> >
> |> >http://www.onlinegrammar.com.au/top-10-grammar-myths-data-
> is-plural-so-must-take-a-plural-verb/
> |>
> |> I beg to differ.  "The data was out of date" sounds just plain
> |> stupid to my sensitive ears.
> |>
> |> It's rather like using the phrase "begs the question" to mean
> |> "raises the question" or "invites the question" rather than to
> |> carry its *correct* meaning of "assumes what is to be proved".  The
> |> fact that the phrase is almost always used in its *incorrect* sense
> |> these days, and almost never in its *correct* sense, does not
> |> diminish the fact that those who use it incorrectly are ignorant
> |> scumbags!  The language is weakened and diminished by the
> |> encroachment of incorrect usage.
> |>
> |> cheers,
> |>
> |> Rolf
> |>
> |>
> |> --
> |> Technical Editor ANZJS
> |> Department of Statistics
> |> University of Auckland
> |> Phone: +64-9-373-7599 ext. 88276
> |>
> |> ______________________________________________
> |> [hidden email] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> |> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> |> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/
> posting-guide.html
> |> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>
> --
> ~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.
>
>    ___    Patrick Connolly
>  {~._.~}                   Great minds discuss ideas
>  _( Y )_                 Average minds discuss events
> (:_~*~_:)                  Small minds discuss people
>  (_)-(_)                              ..... Eleanor Roosevelt
>
> ~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.
>

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