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License Question

Freiberger, Katrin
Dear All,

I learned about R during my studies at Cologne University of Applied Science. Now I work at Allianz Dresdner Bauspar AG and I would like to install R here too. Is there any license issues that need to be taken in consideration, any fees to pay by the company? I know there are answers to this in the FAQs but I didn't really understand the legal language. Could you therefore just give me concrete answers?

Thanks for you help & kind regards,

Katrin Freiberger

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Re: License Question

Duncan Murdoch
On 10/27/2008 9:04 AM, Freiberger, Katrin wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> I learned about R during my studies at Cologne University of Applied Science. Now I work at Allianz Dresdner Bauspar AG and I would like to install R here too. Is there any license issues that need to be taken in consideration, any fees to pay by the company? I know there are answers to this in the FAQs but I didn't really understand the legal language. Could you therefore just give me concrete answers?

R is licensed under the GPL version 2, a pretty common license.  You
should be able to get legal advice on it internally at your company.  If
you ask on a forum like this, you'll get lots of advice, but some of it
will likely be wrong.  I don't want to add to that, so I won't give any
other than "ask internally".

Duncan Murdoch

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Re: License Question

barry rowlingson
In reply to this post by Freiberger, Katrin
2008/10/27 Freiberger, Katrin <[hidden email]>:
> Dear All,
>
> I learned about R during my studies at Cologne University of Applied Science. Now I work at Allianz Dresdner Bauspar AG and I would like to install R here too. Is there any license issues that need to be taken in consideration, any fees to pay by the company? I know there are answers to this in the FAQs but I didn't really understand the legal language. Could you therefore just give me concrete answers?
>

  When you use R, there is no license agreement in place at all. You
have not, and do not have to, agree to anything in order to use R. You
are free to use it in any way.

 When people say 'R is licensed under the GPL', that is purely
applicable to copying and distribution of the R software.

 Other software licenses do cover usage, and forbid you from modifying
or inspecting the program in certain ways. These are usually the
licenses you have to click-through to run the program, since this is
supposed to indicate that you have read and agreed to the license.
There is no click-through license when you start R, because you don't
have to agree with the GPL just to use R.

 Hope that helps,

Barry

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Re: License Question

Peter Dalgaard
In reply to this post by Duncan Murdoch
Duncan Murdoch wrote:

> On 10/27/2008 9:04 AM, Freiberger, Katrin wrote:
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I learned about R during my studies at Cologne University of Applied
>> Science. Now I work at Allianz Dresdner Bauspar AG and I would like to
>> install R here too. Is there any license issues that need to be taken
>> in consideration, any fees to pay by the company? I know there are
>> answers to this in the FAQs but I didn't really understand the legal
>> language. Could you therefore just give me concrete answers?
>
> R is licensed under the GPL version 2, a pretty common license.  You
> should be able to get legal advice on it internally at your company.  If
> you ask on a forum like this, you'll get lots of advice, but some of it
> will likely be wrong.  I don't want to add to that, so I won't give any
> other than "ask internally".

Hmm, well, on the other hand, that makes it sound as if there are demons
lurking inside. Perhaps a pointer to the GPL FAQ at
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html is in order.

(The GPL specifically disallows restrictions on commercial use.)

--
    O__  ---- Peter Dalgaard             Ă˜ster Farimagsgade 5, Entr.B
   c/ /'_ --- Dept. of Biostatistics     PO Box 2099, 1014 Cph. K
  (*) \(*) -- University of Copenhagen   Denmark      Ph:  (+45) 35327918
~~~~~~~~~~ - ([hidden email])              FAX: (+45) 35327907

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Re: License Question

Duncan Murdoch
In reply to this post by barry rowlingson
On 10/27/2008 1:19 PM, Barry Rowlingson wrote:

> 2008/10/27 Freiberger, Katrin <[hidden email]>:
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I learned about R during my studies at Cologne University of Applied Science. Now I work at Allianz Dresdner Bauspar AG and I would like to install R here too. Is there any license issues that need to be taken in consideration, any fees to pay by the company? I know there are answers to this in the FAQs but I didn't really understand the legal language. Could you therefore just give me concrete answers?
>>
>
>   When you use R, there is no license agreement in place at all. You
> have not, and do not have to, agree to anything in order to use R. You
> are free to use it in any way.
>
>  When people say 'R is licensed under the GPL', that is purely
> applicable to copying and distribution of the R software.
>
>  Other software licenses do cover usage, and forbid you from modifying
> or inspecting the program in certain ways. These are usually the
> licenses you have to click-through to run the program, since this is
> supposed to indicate that you have read and agreed to the license.
> There is no click-through license when you start R, because you don't
> have to agree with the GPL just to use R.

Actually, there's a click-through license on the Mac binary, probably
because it's hard to turn it off.  There used to be one on the Windows
binary install, until I worked out how to avoid it.

Duncan Murdoch

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Re: License Question

Marc Schwartz
In reply to this post by Duncan Murdoch
on 10/27/2008 11:26 AM Duncan Murdoch wrote:

> On 10/27/2008 9:04 AM, Freiberger, Katrin wrote:
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I learned about R during my studies at Cologne University of Applied
>> Science. Now I work at Allianz Dresdner Bauspar AG and I would like to
>> install R here too. Is there any license issues that need to be taken
>> in consideration, any fees to pay by the company? I know there are
>> answers to this in the FAQs but I didn't really understand the legal
>> language. Could you therefore just give me concrete answers?
>
> R is licensed under the GPL version 2, a pretty common license.  You
> should be able to get legal advice on it internally at your company.  If
> you ask on a forum like this, you'll get lots of advice, but some of it
> will likely be wrong.  I don't want to add to that, so I won't give any
> other than "ask internally".

As Duncan has noted, "concrete" or "absolute" answers relative to what
you can or cannot install on your company's computers will be solely
dependent upon your company's internal software/IT policies and formal
legal guidance.

Most large companies and even many smaller ones, will have such policies
in place and you should seek out your supervisors for guidance and
reference to the specific guidelines.

In addition, immediate colleagues will likely have some idea on this and
can provide at least informal guidance to you, including any
requirements that may be in place specifically for analytic software.
For example, what do your colleagues use and must you be in a position
to share compatible code and data files that may be proprietary?

If so, then you may have only one choice, which is to use whatever they
are using, presuming that it is not R, since you would not be asking if
that were the case.

The GPL license only really comes into play if you want to distribute R
and/or distribute any software that you write that "links" to R. The
latter typically involves compiled languages such as C and FORTRAN.
Should that be a consideration, you have to ensure that the source code
for both are made available, but even that may be a non-issue if the use
of these will be internal only.

As noted in the relevant R FAQ (2.11):

"Activities other than copying, distribution and modification are not
covered by this License; they are outside its scope. The act of running
the Program is not restricted, and the output from the Program is
covered only if its contents constitute a work based on the Program."


There are no costs involved for R, other than if you or your company
wish to make a donation to the R Foundation:

  http://www.r-project.org/foundation/main.html

which I would certainly recommend.

HTH,

Marc Schwartz

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Re: License Question

David M Smith
In reply to this post by Freiberger, Katrin
As others have pointed out, you can download and use R for commercial
purposes for free.  This is allowed under the terms of the GPL under
which R is licensed.

If your company requires software to be professionally supported, you
might want to consider purchasing a version of R that includes a
support subscription. (The GPL doesn't preclude companies charging for
open-source software.)  REvolution Computing (whom I work for) offers
a version of R called RPro that includes support and additional
documentation, and the binary is optimized with high-performance math
libraries. You can find information about it at the link in my
signature.

# David Smith
--
David Smith <[hidden email]>
Director of Community, REvolution Computing www.revolution-computing.com
Tel: (206) 577-4778 x3203

On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 6:04 AM, Freiberger, Katrin
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Dear All,
>
> I learned about R during my studies at Cologne University of Applied Science. Now I work at Allianz Dresdner Bauspar AG and I would like to install R here too. Is there any license issues that need to be taken in consideration, any fees to pay by the company? I know there are answers to this in the FAQs but I didn't really understand the legal language. Could you therefore just give me concrete answers?
>
> Thanks for you help & kind regards,
>
> Katrin Freiberger
>
> ______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.

______________________________________________
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Re: License Question

rplus
In reply to this post by Freiberger, Katrin

   Katrin,



   R is completely free - no License. We've built a supported user friendly
   version: R-PLUS

   You can freely evaluate R-PLUS - the current free trial has no expiration
   date.



   At a click, import data from different formats, use Excel-like
   spreadsheet for manipulating your data, create publication-quality
   reports, generate editable graphics ... and click click to run your
   favorite models through dialogs.
   Check out the screenshots at   www.Experience-Rplus.com   and tell us
   what you think. Register for free trial.



   R-PLUS  Team

   24 Hours Tech Support

   Think Fast, Think Big, Without The High Cost!

   [1]www.Experience-Rplus.com/Conference.asp

   USAR2009, Las Vegas USA    R|Rplus Conference.

   April 26-30, 2009 !



   --- On Mon, 10/27/08, Freiberger, Katrin <[2][hidden email]>
   wrote:

   > From: Freiberger, Katrin <[3][hidden email]>
   > Subject: [R] License Question
   > To: [4][hidden email]
   > Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 6:04 AM
   > Dear All,
   >
   > I learned about R during my studies at Cologne University
   > of Applied Science. Now I work at Allianz Dresdner Bauspar
   > AG and I would like to install R here too. Is there any
   > license issues that need to be taken in consideration, any
   > fees to pay by the company? I know there are answers to this
   > in the FAQs but I didn't really understand the legal
   > language. Could you therefore just give me concrete answers?
   >
   > Thanks for you help & kind regards,
   >
   > Katrin Freiberger
   >
   > ______________________________________________
   > [5][hidden email] mailing list
   > [6]https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
   > PLEASE do read the posting guide
   > [7]http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
   > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained,
   > reproducible code.

References

   Visible links
   1. http://www.experience-rplus.com/Conference.asp
   2. mailto:[hidden email]
   3. mailto:[hidden email]
   4. mailto:[hidden email]
   5. mailto:[hidden email]
   6. https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
   7. http://www.r-project.org/posting-guide.html

   Hidden links:
   8. http://www.experience-rplus.com/Conference.asp
______________________________________________
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and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
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Re: License Question

dsmith-2
In reply to this post by Freiberger, Katrin

   Katrin,



   R is free and you get great support from this mailling list. Check out
   R-PLUS by XLSolutions Corporation.

   The free R-PLUS trial has no expiration date.



   At a click, import data from different formats, use Excel-like
   spreadsheet for manipulating your data, create publication-quality
   reports, generate editable graphics ... and click click to run your
   favorite models through dialogs.



   If you have questions, please contact the support team



   Cheers - DS



   R-PLUS  Team

   24 Hours Tech Support

   [1][hidden email]

   Think Fast, Think Big, Without The High Cost!

   [2]www.Experience-Rplus.com/Conference.asp

   USAR2009, Las Vegas USA    R|Rplus Conference.

   April 26-30, 2009 !



   --- On Mon, 10/27/08, Freiberger, Katrin <[3][hidden email]>
   wrote:

   > From: Freiberger, Katrin <[4][hidden email]>
   > Subject: [R] License Question
   > To: [5][hidden email]
   > Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 6:04 AM
   > Dear All,
   >
   > I learned about R during my studies at Cologne University
   > of Applied Science. Now I work at Allianz Dresdner Bauspar
   > AG and I would like to install R here too. Is there any
   > license issues that need to be taken in consideration, any
   > fees to pay by the company? I know there are answers to this
   > in the FAQs but I didn't really understand the legal
   > language. Could you therefore just give me concrete answers?
   >
   > Thanks for you help & kind regards,
   >
   > Katrin Freiberger
   >
   > ______________________________________________
   > [6][hidden email] mailing list
   > [7]https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
   > PLEASE do read the posting guide
   > [8]http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
   > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained,
   > reproducible code.

References

   Visible links
   1. mailto:[hidden email]
   2. http://www.experience-rplus.com/Conference.asp
   3. mailto:[hidden email]
   4. mailto:[hidden email]
   5. mailto:[hidden email]
   6. mailto:[hidden email]
   7. https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
   8. http://www.r-project.org/posting-guide.html

   Hidden links:
   9. http://www.experience-rplus.com/Conference.asp
______________________________________________
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Re: License Question

Tom Backer Johnsen
In reply to this post by Freiberger, Katrin
Freiberger, Katrin wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> I learned about R during my studies at Cologne University of Applied Science. Now I work at Allianz Dresdner Bauspar AG and I would like to install R here too. Is there any license issues that need to be taken in consideration, any fees to pay by the company? I know there are answers to this in the FAQs but I didn't really understand the legal language. Could you therefore just give me concrete answers?

This question has (up to now) lead to contributions from representives
for two commercial interfaces to R.  Personally, I do not object to
that, these contibutions add to the information about the usage of R.
Nevertheless, does anybody know anything about these products?  E.g.:
what are the costs for academic users?  How about the basic difference
between the basically open-ended approach and the rather closed menu
oriented approach?

That is only some or the questions I have after looking at the
respective web pages.  Those questions are, in respect to the original
thread, a sidetrack, but may nevertheless be of interest to R users.

Tom

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Re: License Question

Duncan Murdoch
In reply to this post by rplus
[hidden email] wrote:
>    Katrin,
>
>
>
>    R is completely free - no License. We've built a supported user friendly
>    version: R-PLUS
>  

This statement is not correct.  R is licensed under the GPL.  This is a
"free software" license, but it is not the same as having no license.
There are obligations under the GPL that anyone who distributes GPL'd
software should be aware of.

Does XL Solutions distribute R?  Does it follow its obligations under
the GPL?

Duncan Murdoch

>    You can freely evaluate R-PLUS - the current free trial has no expiration
>    date.
>
>
>
>    At a click, import data from different formats, use Excel-like
>    spreadsheet for manipulating your data, create publication-quality
>    reports, generate editable graphics ... and click click to run your
>    favorite models through dialogs.
>    Check out the screenshots at   www.Experience-Rplus.com   and tell us
>    what you think. Register for free trial.
>
>
>
>    R-PLUS  Team
>
>    24 Hours Tech Support
>
>    Think Fast, Think Big, Without The High Cost!
>
>    [1]www.Experience-Rplus.com/Conference.asp
>
>    USAR2009, Las Vegas USA    R|Rplus Conference.
>
>    April 26-30, 2009 !
>
>
>
>    --- On Mon, 10/27/08, Freiberger, Katrin <[2][hidden email]>
>    wrote:
>
>    > From: Freiberger, Katrin <[3][hidden email]>
>    > Subject: [R] License Question
>    > To: [4][hidden email]
>    > Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 6:04 AM
>    > Dear All,
>    >
>    > I learned about R during my studies at Cologne University
>    > of Applied Science. Now I work at Allianz Dresdner Bauspar
>    > AG and I would like to install R here too. Is there any
>    > license issues that need to be taken in consideration, any
>    > fees to pay by the company? I know there are answers to this
>    > in the FAQs but I didn't really understand the legal
>    > language. Could you therefore just give me concrete answers?
>    >
>    > Thanks for you help & kind regards,
>    >
>    > Katrin Freiberger
>    >
>    > ______________________________________________
>    > [5][hidden email] mailing list
>    > [6]https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>    > PLEASE do read the posting guide
>    > [7]http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
>    > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained,
>    > reproducible code.
>
> References
>
>    Visible links
>    1. http://www.experience-rplus.com/Conference.asp
>    2. mailto:[hidden email]
>    3. mailto:[hidden email]
>    4. mailto:[hidden email]
>    5. mailto:[hidden email]
>    6. https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>    7. http://www.r-project.org/posting-guide.html
>
>    Hidden links:
>    8. http://www.experience-rplus.com/Conference.asp
> ______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>

______________________________________________
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Re: License Question

rplus
In reply to this post by Freiberger, Katrin

   Hi Duncan,



   Yes we do follow the legal terms very carefully and make sure our general
   counsel reviews all these stuff.

   To answer your question, we do not distribute R.  We distribute  R-PLUS.



   When users ask us about  'R license', it usually refers to potential hidden
   costs. However you are right that explaining the GPL terms is paramount.



   Thanks -





   R-PLUS Team
    24 Hours Tech Support
    Think Fast, Think Big, Without The High Cost!
   [1]www.Experience-Rplus.com/Conference.asp
    USAR2009, Las Vegas USA R|Rplus Conference.
    April 26-30, 2009 !



   -------- Original Message --------
   Subject: Re: [R] License Question
   From: Duncan Murdoch <[hidden email]>
   Date: Mon, October 27, 2008 6:59 pm
   To: [hidden email]
   Cc: [hidden email]
   [hidden email] wrote:
   > Katrin,
   >
   >
   >
   > R is completely free - no License. We've built a supported user friendly
   > version: R-PLUS
   >
   This statement is not correct. R is licensed under the GPL. This is a
   "free software" license, but it is not the same as having no license.
   There are obligations under the GPL that anyone who distributes GPL'd
   software should be aware of.
   Does XL Solutions distribute R? Does it follow its obligations under
   the GPL?
   Duncan Murdoch
   > You can freely evaluate R-PLUS - the current free trial has no expiration
   > date.
   >
   >
   >
   > At a click, import data from different formats, use Excel-like
   > spreadsheet for manipulating your data, create publication-quality
   > reports, generate editable graphics ... and click click to run your
   > favorite models through dialogs.
   > Check out the screenshots at [2]www.Experience-Rplus.com and tell us
   > what you think. Register for free trial.
   >
   >
   >
   > R-PLUS Team
   >
   > 24 Hours Tech Support
   >
   > Think Fast, Think Big, Without The High Cost!
   >
   > [1][3]www.Experience-Rplus.com/Conference.asp
   >
   > USAR2009, Las Vegas USA R|Rplus Conference.
   >
   > April 26-30, 2009 !
   >
   >
   >
   > --- On Mon, 10/27/08, Freiberger, Katrin <[2][hidden email]>
   > wrote:
   >
   > > From: Freiberger, Katrin <[3][hidden email]>
   > > Subject: [R] License Question
   > > To: [4][hidden email]
   > > Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 6:04 AM
   > > Dear All,
   > >
   > > I learned about R during my studies at Cologne University
   > > of Applied Science. Now I work at Allianz Dresdner Bauspar
   > > AG and I would like to install R here too. Is there any
   > > license issues that need to be taken in consideration, any
   > > fees to pay by the company? I know there are answers to this
   > > in the FAQs but I didn't really understand the legal
   > > language. Could you therefore just give me concrete answers?
   > >
   > > Thanks for you help & kind regards,
   > >
   > > Katrin Freiberger
   > >
   > > ______________________________________________
   > > [5][hidden email] mailing list
   > > [6][4]https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
   > > PLEASE do read the posting guide
   > > [7][5]http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
   > > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained,
   > > reproducible code.
   >
   > References
   >
   > Visible links
   > 1. [6]http://www.experience-rplus.com/Conference.asp
   > 2. [7]mailto:[hidden email]
   > 3. [8]mailto:[hidden email]
   > 4. [9]mailto:[hidden email]
   > 5. [10]mailto:[hidden email]
   > 6. [11]https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
   > 7. [12]http://www.r-project.org/posting-guide.html
   >
   > Hidden links:
   > 8. [13]http://www.experience-rplus.com/Conference.asp
   > ______________________________________________
   > [hidden email] mailing list
   > [14]https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
   > PLEASE do read the posting guide
   [15]http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
   > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
   >

References

   1. http://www.Experience-Rplus.com/Conference.asp
   2. http://www.Experience-Rplus.com/
   3. http://www.Experience-Rplus.com/Conference.asp
   4. https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
   5. http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
   6. http://www.experience-rplus.com/Conference.asp
   7. http://email01.secureserver.net/pcompose.php#Compose
   8. http://email01.secureserver.net/pcompose.php#Compose
   9. http://email01.secureserver.net/pcompose.php#Compose
  10. http://email01.secureserver.net/pcompose.php#Compose
  11. https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
  12. http://www.r-project.org/posting-guide.html
  13. http://www.experience-rplus.com/Conference.asp
  14. https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
  15. http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
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Re: License Question

barry rowlingson
2008/10/28  <[hidden email]>:

>   To answer your question, we do not distribute R.  We distribute  R-PLUS.

 But your web site claims, in big capital letters, that R-plus is "THE
REAL R". If you are not distributing R (the real real R, (c) The R
Foundation), then this could be construed as false advertising.

 So I'm guessing that R-plus must be an add-on to the real real R, in
which case you can't distribute R with R-plus under a non-free
license. You can unbundle it though, and tell your users to 'first go
get R'. I can't find an installation guide or a decent FAQ that
confirms this. As a non-lawyer, I'd advise you to remove 'The Real R'
from the web site and instead put 'Works With The Real R'. And explain
this in the FAQ. And give a link to www.r-project.org.

 Oh, btw, I'd fix your blog links: go to:
http://www.experience-rplus.com/blog.asp?b=act  and click a
screenshot...

Barry

______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
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Re: License Question

Tom Backer Johnsen
In reply to this post by Tom Backer Johnsen
David Smith wrote:
> Hi Tom,
>
> We're in the process of updating the information on our website for
> academic users, but in general we're making RPro available to academic
> users free of charge.  I'm just gathering the information from the
> department in charge of the academic program, and I'll make a public
> reply to r-help when I get that info.  Just wanted to respond to your
> question directly in the interim.

Thanks.  I am looking forward to more information.
>
> RPro isn't going the route of a closed menu approach -- it's the same R
> command-line and script mode you're used to from R.  We're focussing
> more on performance, parallel computation, and additional packages.

Good.  On the other hand, this sounds like it is (or will be) somewhat
similar to the interfaces that already are avialble, e.g. Tinn-R or
Rcmdr.  So, what are the advantages?
>
> I'd be happy to answer any other questions you might have of RPro --
> feel free to call or email.

Thank you.

Tom

______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
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Re: License Question

Simon Blomberg-4
In reply to this post by barry rowlingson
I  downloaded the trial version and during the installation it told me that I had to install R first (from CRAN). So it looks like the R-PLUS interface is separate from R. They do not distribute R with R-PLUS. I'm in no way associated with this company, and I don't want or need a GUI for my own work. And its a Windows program. So I won't be using R-PLUS.

Simon.


Simon Blomberg, BSc (Hons), PhD, MAppStat.
Lecturer and Consultant Statistician
Faculty of Biological and Chemical Sciences
The University of Queensland
St. Lucia Queensland 4072
Australia
T: +61 7 3365 2506
email: S.Blomberg1_at_uq.edu.au
http://www.uq.edu.au/~uqsblomb/

Policies:
1.  I will NOT analyse your data for you.
2.  Your deadline is your problem.

The combination of some data and an aching desire for
an answer does not ensure that a reasonable answer can
be extracted from a given body of data. - John Tukey.



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] on behalf of Barry Rowlingson
Sent: Tue 28/10/2008 6:40 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]; Duncan Murdoch
Subject: Re: [R] License Question
 
2008/10/28  <[hidden email]>:

>   To answer your question, we do not distribute R.  We distribute  R-PLUS.

 But your web site claims, in big capital letters, that R-plus is "THE
REAL R". If you are not distributing R (the real real R, (c) The R
Foundation), then this could be construed as false advertising.

 So I'm guessing that R-plus must be an add-on to the real real R, in
which case you can't distribute R with R-plus under a non-free
license. You can unbundle it though, and tell your users to 'first go
get R'. I can't find an installation guide or a decent FAQ that
confirms this. As a non-lawyer, I'd advise you to remove 'The Real R'
from the web site and instead put 'Works With The Real R'. And explain
this in the FAQ. And give a link to www.r-project.org.

 Oh, btw, I'd fix your blog links: go to:
http://www.experience-rplus.com/blog.asp?b=act  and click a
screenshot...

Barry

______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.


        [[alternative HTML version deleted]]

______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
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Re: License Question

Duncan Murdoch
In reply to this post by rplus
On 10/28/2008 3:01 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>    Hi Duncan,
>
>
>
>    Yes we do follow the legal terms very carefully and make sure our general
>    counsel reviews all these stuff.
>
>    To answer your question, we do not distribute R.  We distribute  R-PLUS.

Thanks for the clarification.  As long as you're not making copies of R
(or bits and pieces of it), the GPL doesn't place restrictions on you.

Duncan Murdoch

>
>
>
>    When users ask us about  'R license', it usually refers to potential hidden
>    costs. However you are right that explaining the GPL terms is paramount.
>
>
>
>    Thanks -
>
>
>
>
>
>    R-PLUS Team
>     24 Hours Tech Support
>     Think Fast, Think Big, Without The High Cost!
>    [1]www.Experience-Rplus.com/Conference.asp
>     USAR2009, Las Vegas USA R|Rplus Conference.
>     April 26-30, 2009 !
>
>
>
>    -------- Original Message --------
>    Subject: Re: [R] License Question
>    From: Duncan Murdoch <[hidden email]>
>    Date: Mon, October 27, 2008 6:59 pm
>    To: [hidden email]
>    Cc: [hidden email]
>    [hidden email] wrote:
>    > Katrin,
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    > R is completely free - no License. We've built a supported user friendly
>    > version: R-PLUS
>    >
>    This statement is not correct. R is licensed under the GPL. This is a
>    "free software" license, but it is not the same as having no license.
>    There are obligations under the GPL that anyone who distributes GPL'd
>    software should be aware of.
>    Does XL Solutions distribute R? Does it follow its obligations under
>    the GPL?
>    Duncan Murdoch
>    > You can freely evaluate R-PLUS - the current free trial has no expiration
>    > date.
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    > At a click, import data from different formats, use Excel-like
>    > spreadsheet for manipulating your data, create publication-quality
>    > reports, generate editable graphics ... and click click to run your
>    > favorite models through dialogs.
>    > Check out the screenshots at [2]www.Experience-Rplus.com and tell us
>    > what you think. Register for free trial.
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    > R-PLUS Team
>    >
>    > 24 Hours Tech Support
>    >
>    > Think Fast, Think Big, Without The High Cost!
>    >
>    > [1][3]www.Experience-Rplus.com/Conference.asp
>    >
>    > USAR2009, Las Vegas USA R|Rplus Conference.
>    >
>    > April 26-30, 2009 !
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    > --- On Mon, 10/27/08, Freiberger, Katrin <[2][hidden email]>
>    > wrote:
>    >
>    > > From: Freiberger, Katrin <[3][hidden email]>
>    > > Subject: [R] License Question
>    > > To: [4][hidden email]
>    > > Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 6:04 AM
>    > > Dear All,
>    > >
>    > > I learned about R during my studies at Cologne University
>    > > of Applied Science. Now I work at Allianz Dresdner Bauspar
>    > > AG and I would like to install R here too. Is there any
>    > > license issues that need to be taken in consideration, any
>    > > fees to pay by the company? I know there are answers to this
>    > > in the FAQs but I didn't really understand the legal
>    > > language. Could you therefore just give me concrete answers?
>    > >
>    > > Thanks for you help & kind regards,
>    > >
>    > > Katrin Freiberger
>    > >
>    > > ______________________________________________
>    > > [5][hidden email] mailing list
>    > > [6][4]https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>    > > PLEASE do read the posting guide
>    > > [7][5]http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
>    > > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained,
>    > > reproducible code.
>    >
>    > References
>    >
>    > Visible links
>    > 1. [6]http://www.experience-rplus.com/Conference.asp
>    > 2. [7]mailto:[hidden email]
>    > 3. [8]mailto:[hidden email]
>    > 4. [9]mailto:[hidden email]
>    > 5. [10]mailto:[hidden email]
>    > 6. [11]https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>    > 7. [12]http://www.r-project.org/posting-guide.html
>    >
>    > Hidden links:
>    > 8. [13]http://www.experience-rplus.com/Conference.asp
>    > ______________________________________________
>    > [hidden email] mailing list
>    > [14]https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>    > PLEASE do read the posting guide
>    [15]http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
>    > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>    >
>
> References
>
>    1. http://www.Experience-Rplus.com/Conference.asp
>    2. http://www.Experience-Rplus.com/
>    3. http://www.Experience-Rplus.com/Conference.asp
>    4. https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>    5. http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
>    6. http://www.experience-rplus.com/Conference.asp
>    7. http://email01.secureserver.net/pcompose.php#Compose
>    8. http://email01.secureserver.net/pcompose.php#Compose
>    9. http://email01.secureserver.net/pcompose.php#Compose
>   10. http://email01.secureserver.net/pcompose.php#Compose
>   11. https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>   12. http://www.r-project.org/posting-guide.html
>   13. http://www.experience-rplus.com/Conference.asp
>   14. https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>   15. http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> ______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.

______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
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Re: License Question

David M Smith
In reply to this post by Tom Backer Johnsen
[replying to r-help as well]

Hi Tom,

> Thanks.  I am looking forward to more information.

We're putting together the academic program right now, but our website
will be updated with more details in the next few weeks.  As I
mentioned though our general attitude is that RPro should be available
to individuals at academic institutions for free.  We're in the
process of finalizing some details around support and distribution.

> Good.  On the other hand, this sounds like it is (or will be) somewhat
> similar to the interfaces that already are avialble, e.g. Tinn-R or Rcmdr.
>  So, what are the advantages?

We're taking a Red Hat like approach to R at REvolution. We aim to
distribute R and select packages in a form that makes it easy to
install, and we provide support and services to the institutions that
use it.  RPro includes some extensions from REvolution (such as a
cross-platform installer, some additional documentation, a package of
utilities, and we compile it to link with high-performance Intel BLAS
libraries and support parallel processing) but at it's core it's 100%
the same R you download from CRAN.  The main benefit is that we manage
the release cycle, test and verify the binaries we build, and provide
dedicated support through our technical team.  If you're more of a
"bleeding edge" R user happy downloading alpha versions of R and
asking questions on R-devel this probably won't be much of an
advantage for you.  But for statisticians in companies where an IT
deparment manages the installation and access to technical support is
essential we hope to provide "added value", as they say (and hopefully
unburden r-help with some of the more mundane questions from
commercial R users to boot).

REvolution also aims to be a contributing member of the R community.
We're a benefactor of the R Foundation, and we contribute changes made
to the core R sources back to R.  That's required by the GPL, of
course, but it benefits everyone.  For example, we're working right
now on a 64-bit Windows build of R.  It's kinda tricky to build a
64-bit version of R on Windows right now, but once the necessary
changes are incorporated into the R sources it will be easier for
everyone, not just users of RPro.

If anyone on the list has any other questions about REvolution, please
feel free to contact me by email or phone (my number is in my
signature).  We'll also be at DSC2009 and UserR! next year.

--
David Smith <[hidden email]>
Director of Community, REvolution Computing www.revolution-computing.com
Tel: +1 (206) 577-4778 x3203


On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 2:57 AM, Tom Backer Johnsen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> David Smith wrote:
>>
>> Hi Tom,
>>
>> We're in the process of updating the information on our website for
>> academic users, but in general we're making RPro available to academic users
>> free of charge.  I'm just gathering the information from the department in
>> charge of the academic program, and I'll make a public reply to r-help when
>> I get that info.  Just wanted to respond to your question directly in the
>> interim.
>
> Thanks.  I am looking forward to more information.
>>
>> RPro isn't going the route of a closed menu approach -- it's the same R
>> command-line and script mode you're used to from R.  We're focussing more on
>> performance, parallel computation, and additional packages.
>
> Good.  On the other hand, this sounds like it is (or will be) somewhat
> similar to the interfaces that already are avialble, e.g. Tinn-R or Rcmdr.
>  So, what are the advantages?
>>
>> I'd be happy to answer any other questions you might have of RPro -- feel
>> free to call or email.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Tom
>
>

______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
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Re: License Question

rplus
In reply to this post by Freiberger, Katrin

   Thank you Simon,
   We are working on the linux version as well and will roll out more products
   during our conference in Las Vegas next year.
   Regards

   R-PLUS  Team

   24 Hours Tech Support

   Think Fast, Think Big, Without The High Cost!

   [1]www.Experience-Rplus.com/Conference.asp

   USAR2009, Las Vegas USA    R|Rplus Conference.

   April 26-30, 2009 !

   -------- Original Message --------
   Subject: RE: [R] License Question
   From: "Simon Blomberg" <[hidden email]>
   Date: Tue, October 28, 2008 4:45 am
   To: "Barry Rowlingson" <[hidden email]>,
   <[hidden email]>
   Cc: <[hidden email]>, "Duncan Murdoch" <[hidden email]>

   I  downloaded the trial version and during the installation it told me that
   I had to install R first (from CRAN). So it looks like the R-PLUS interface
   is separate from R. They do not distribute R with R-PLUS. I'm in no way
   associated with this company, and I don't want or need a GUI for my own
   work. And its a Windows program. So I won't be using R-PLUS.
   Simon.
   Simon Blomberg, BSc (Hons), PhD, MAppStat.
   Lecturer and Consultant Statistician
   Faculty of Biological and Chemical Sciences
   The University of Queensland
   St. Lucia Queensland 4072
   Australia
   T: +61 7 3365 2506
   email: S.Blomberg1_at_uq.edu.au
   [2]http://www.uq.edu.au/~uqsblomb/
   Policies:
   1.  I will NOT analyse your data for you.
   2.  Your deadline is your problem.
   The combination of some data and an aching desire for
   an answer does not ensure that a reasonable answer can
   be extracted from a given body of data. - John Tukey.
   -----Original Message-----
   From: [hidden email] on behalf of Barry Rowlingson
   Sent: Tue 28/10/2008 6:40 PM
   To: [hidden email]
   Cc: [hidden email]; Duncan Murdoch
   Subject: Re: [R] License Question
   2008/10/28  <[hidden email]>:
   >   To answer your question, we do not distribute R.  We distribute  R-PLUS.
    But your web site claims, in big capital letters, that R-plus is "THE
   REAL R". If you are not distributing R (the real real R, (c) The R
   Foundation), then this could be construed as false advertising.
    So I'm guessing that R-plus must be an add-on to the real real R, in
   which case you can't distribute R with R-plus under a non-free
   license. You can unbundle it though, and tell your users to 'first go
   get R'. I can't find an installation guide or a decent FAQ that
   confirms this. As a non-lawyer, I'd advise you to remove 'The Real R'
   from the web site and instead put 'Works With The Real R'. And explain
   this in the FAQ. And give a link to www.r-project.org.
    Oh, btw, I'd fix your blog links: go to:
   [3]http://www.experience-rplus.com/blog.asp?b=act  and click a
   screenshot...
   Barry
   ______________________________________________
   [hidden email] mailing list
   [4]https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
   PLEASE do read the posting guide
   [5]http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
   and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.

References

   1. http://www.experience-rplus.com/Conference.asp
   2. http://www.uq.edu.au/%7Euqsblomb/
   3. http://www.experience-rplus.com/blog.asp?b=act
   4. https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
   5. http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
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Re: License Question

James W. MacDonald
In reply to this post by barry rowlingson
>>> "Barry Rowlingson" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  Oh, btw, I'd fix your blog links: go to:
> http://www.experience-rplus.com/blog.asp?b=act  and click a
> screenshot...

Now that is hilarious. A fine example of defensive coding for the web circa 2008 ;-D

Best,

Jim


>
> Barry
>
> ______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help 
> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html 
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
--

James W. MacDonald, M.S.
Biostatistician
Hildebrandt Lab
8220D MSRB III
1150 W. Medical Center Drive
Ann Arbor MI 48109-5646
734-936-8662


**********************************************************
Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be used for urgent or sensitive issues

______________________________________________
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https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
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Re: License Question

Chi Chan
In reply to this post by Duncan Murdoch
Just remember that the Linux kernel is also licensed under GPL v2.

I am not sure if you pay for your Linux distribution. But for many gov
sites and for my copy of Linux, they just use Linux as a completely
free product -- in the sense that no money needs to be paid to a
company or anyone. However, if you want support for R, then you can
get it on this list, or you can pay someone for it.

--Chi


On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Duncan Murdoch <[hidden email]> wrote:

> R is licensed under the GPL version 2, a pretty common license.  You should
> be able to get legal advice on it internally at your company.  If you ask on
> a forum like this, you'll get lots of advice, but some of it will likely be
> wrong.  I don't want to add to that, so I won't give any other than "ask
> internally".
>
> Duncan Murdoch
>
> ______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>

______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.