[O/T] undergrads and R

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
9 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

[O/T] undergrads and R

Erin Hodgess
Dear R People:

Are your undergraduate students receptive to learning R, as a rule?

Most of the time, mine really like it.  But this semester, they act as
though they are being eaten by rats when learning R.  They are not
trying at all.

Any similar experiences?  If anyone has any good ideas, I would be
THRILLED to hear them, as I am using R in Summer School.

Thanks,
Sincerely,
Erin Hodgess
Associate Professor
Department of Computer and Mathematical Sciences
University of Houston - Downtown
mailto: [hidden email]

______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [O/T] undergrads and R

Fox, John
Dear Erin,

I wrote the Rcmdr package because my undergrad intro stats students are much
more comfortable with point-and-click interfaces. You're in a computer and
math department, however, while I'm in sociology -- I would have thought
that your students wouldn't have trouble with command-driven software.

Regards,
 John

--------------------------------
John Fox
Department of Sociology
McMaster University
Hamilton, Ontario
Canada L8S 4M4
905-525-9140x23604
http://socserv.mcmaster.ca/jfox 
--------------------------------

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Erin Hodgess
> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 5:28 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [R] [O/T] undergrads and R
>
> Dear R People:
>
> Are your undergraduate students receptive to learning R, as a rule?
>
> Most of the time, mine really like it.  But this semester,
> they act as though they are being eaten by rats when learning
> R.  They are not trying at all.
>
> Any similar experiences?  If anyone has any good ideas, I
> would be THRILLED to hear them, as I am using R in Summer School.
>
> Thanks,
> Sincerely,
> Erin Hodgess
> Associate Professor
> Department of Computer and Mathematical Sciences University
> of Houston - Downtown
> mailto: [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide!
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html

______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [O/T] undergrads and R

Clint Bowman
In reply to this post by Erin Hodgess
It wasn't R but I've had a similar experience where a class came together
to cause an uncharacteristic reaction to material which had been welcomed
by previous classes (and also by later ones.)

I'd say just put it down to a statistical fluctuation.

Clint

Clint Bowman INTERNET: [hidden email]
Air Dispersion Modeler INTERNET: [hidden email]
Air Quality Program VOICE: (360) 407-6815
Department of Ecology FAX: (360) 407-7534

        USPS:   PO Box 47600, Olympia, WA 98504-7600
        Parcels: 300 Desmond Drive, Lacey, WA 98503-1274

On Mon, 24 Apr 2006, Erin Hodgess wrote:

> Dear R People:
>
> Are your undergraduate students receptive to learning R, as a rule?
>
> Most of the time, mine really like it.  But this semester, they act as
> though they are being eaten by rats when learning R.  They are not
> trying at all.
>
> Any similar experiences?  If anyone has any good ideas, I would be
> THRILLED to hear them, as I am using R in Summer School.
>
> Thanks,
> Sincerely,
> Erin Hodgess
> Associate Professor
> Department of Computer and Mathematical Sciences
> University of Houston - Downtown
> mailto: [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
>

______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [O/T] undergrads and R

Richard M. Heiberger
In reply to this post by Erin Hodgess
This semester for the first time I have been using the combination
of R, R Commander (John Fox's package providing a menu-driven
interface to R), and RExcel (Erich Neuwirth's package for interfacing
R with Excel).  The audience is the introductory Statistics class for Business
undergradutes.  The short summary is that I think the combination works well
for this audience.

I will be talking on my experience at the useR! conference in June.  I added
several additional menu items to Rcmdr for our group.  I sent the January
ones (prior to the beginning of the semester) to John Fox in January.
I will send another batch of menu items, those constructed during the semester,
as soon as the semester is complete.

The goal is to hide most of the programming from the students.  But not all
of it.  I think it is very important for any user of a menu system to
have at least a rudimentary idea of the programming steps behind the menu.
Rcmdr supports this goal since it functions by generating R language statements
from the menu selections and displaying the generated statements.
For example, I will casually change the cex or ylim of a generated plot
statement.  I post the script window (generated and edited statements) from
each class to the course website.  I do not post the output window.

______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [O/T] undergrads and R

Ales Ziberna
I will be also using R commander with undergrad students, who actually
already have some experience with R, however they have been using it
more as programing language than a statistical tool and I want to get
them more familiar with this aspect of R.

First, when I had my first look at R commander, I really liked it,
however, when I did a little more experiments, I found it quite
frustrating at times, especially by the fact that when computing a
certain statistics (for example mean), you can select only one variable
at the time. Are there any plans to change this, so that a number of
variables could be chosen? I would also prefer to have the variables
sorted the same way as they are in the data frame and and not
alphabetically. If this two (what I believe minor) things could be
improved, I would find R commander much more usable.

Otherwise, I find it a grate package, especially when working with
social sciences students.

Does anyone else have similar filings.

Best regards,
Ales Ziberna

Richard M. Heiberger pravi:

> This semester for the first time I have been using the combination
> of R, R Commander (John Fox's package providing a menu-driven
> interface to R), and RExcel (Erich Neuwirth's package for interfacing
> R with Excel).  The audience is the introductory Statistics class for Business
> undergradutes.  The short summary is that I think the combination works well
> for this audience.
>
> I will be talking on my experience at the useR! conference in June.  I added
> several additional menu items to Rcmdr for our group.  I sent the January
> ones (prior to the beginning of the semester) to John Fox in January.
> I will send another batch of menu items, those constructed during the semester,
> as soon as the semester is complete.
>
> The goal is to hide most of the programming from the students.  But not all
> of it.  I think it is very important for any user of a menu system to
> have at least a rudimentary idea of the programming steps behind the menu.
> Rcmdr supports this goal since it functions by generating R language statements
> from the menu selections and displaying the generated statements.
> For example, I will casually change the cex or ylim of a generated plot
> statement.  I post the script window (generated and edited statements) from
> each class to the course website.  I do not post the output window.
>
> ______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
>

______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [O/T] undergrads and R

PIKAL Petr
Hi

I do not work in teaching spheres

but with vectorss why not use

> x1<-rnorm(10)
> x2<-rnorm(20)
> x3<-rnorm(30)
> lapply(list(x1,x2,x3),mean)
[[1]]
[1] 0.1341367

[[2]]
[1] 0.2973334

[[3]]
[1] -0.002678184

>

HTH
Petr

On 25 Apr 2006 at 8:14, Ales Ziberna wrote:

Date sent:       Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:14:34 +0200
From:           Ales Ziberna <[hidden email]>
To:             "Richard M. Heiberger" <[hidden email]>
Copies to:       John Fox <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
Subject:         Re: [R] [O/T] undergrads and R

> I will be also using R commander with undergrad students, who actually
> already have some experience with R, however they have been using it
> more as programing language than a statistical tool and I want to get
> them more familiar with this aspect of R.
>
> First, when I had my first look at R commander, I really liked it,
> however, when I did a little more experiments, I found it quite
> frustrating at times, especially by the fact that when computing a
> certain statistics (for example mean), you can select only one
> variable at the time. Are there any plans to change this, so that a
> number of variables could be chosen? I would also prefer to have the
> variables sorted the same way as they are in the data frame and and
> not alphabetically. If this two (what I believe minor) things could be
> improved, I would find R commander much more usable.
>
> Otherwise, I find it a grate package, especially when working with
> social sciences students.
>
> Does anyone else have similar filings.
>
> Best regards,
> Ales Ziberna
>
> Richard M. Heiberger pravi:
> > This semester for the first time I have been using the combination
> > of R, R Commander (John Fox's package providing a menu-driven
> > interface to R), and RExcel (Erich Neuwirth's package for
> > interfacing R with Excel).  The audience is the introductory
> > Statistics class for Business undergradutes.  The short summary is
> > that I think the combination works well for this audience.
> >
> > I will be talking on my experience at the useR! conference in June.
> > I added several additional menu items to Rcmdr for our group.  I
> > sent the January ones (prior to the beginning of the semester) to
> > John Fox in January. I will send another batch of menu items, those
> > constructed during the semester, as soon as the semester is
> > complete.
> >
> > The goal is to hide most of the programming from the students.  But
> > not all of it.  I think it is very important for any user of a menu
> > system to have at least a rudimentary idea of the programming steps
> > behind the menu. Rcmdr supports this goal since it functions by
> > generating R language statements from the menu selections and
> > displaying the generated statements. For example, I will casually
> > change the cex or ylim of a generated plot statement.  I post the
> > script window (generated and edited statements) from each class to
> > the course website.  I do not post the output window.
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > [hidden email] mailing list
> > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> > PLEASE do read the posting guide!
> > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> >
>
> ______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide!
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html

Petr Pikal
[hidden email]

______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [O/T] undergrads and R

Fox, John
In reply to this post by Ales Ziberna
Dear Ales,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ales Ziberna [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 1:15 AM
> To: Richard M. Heiberger
> Cc: [hidden email]; John Fox
> Subject: Re: [R] [O/T] undergrads and R
>
> I will be also using R commander with undergrad students, who
> actually already have some experience with R, however they
> have been using it more as programing language than a
> statistical tool and I want to get them more familiar with
> this aspect of R.
>
> First, when I had my first look at R commander, I really
> liked it, however, when I did a little more experiments, I
> found it quite frustrating at times, especially by the fact
> that when computing a certain statistics (for example mean),
> you can select only one variable at the time. Are there any
> plans to change this, so that a number of variables could be
> chosen?

This was a deliberate choice, made to discourage students from computing
statistics without thinking about them, but perhaps it's wrongheaded. I'd be
interested to hear what people think.

It would be very simple to change the Numerical Summaries dialog to permit
more than one variable to be selected (in fact you could do it and recompile
the package if you wished). Are you referring only to the "Statistics ->
Summaries -> Numerical summaries" dialog, or are there other places where
you'd like more than one variable to be selected? Would you like a check-box
to select all numeric variables?

More generally, I'm open to considering suggestions for improving the Rcmdr.

> I would also prefer to have the variables sorted the
> same way as they are in the data frame and and not
> alphabetically.

See the sort.names Rcmdr option, described in ?Commander.

Regards,
 John

> If this two (what I believe minor) things
> could be improved, I would find R commander much more usable.
>
> Otherwise, I find it a grate package, especially when working
> with social sciences students.
>
> Does anyone else have similar filings.
>
> Best regards,
> Ales Ziberna
>
> Richard M. Heiberger pravi:
> > This semester for the first time I have been using the
> combination of
> > R, R Commander (John Fox's package providing a menu-driven
> interface
> > to R), and RExcel (Erich Neuwirth's package for interfacing R with
> > Excel).  The audience is the introductory Statistics class for
> > Business undergradutes.  The short summary is that I think the
> > combination works well for this audience.
> >
> > I will be talking on my experience at the useR! conference
> in June.  I
> > added several additional menu items to Rcmdr for our group.  I sent
> > the January ones (prior to the beginning of the semester)
> to John Fox in January.
> > I will send another batch of menu items, those constructed
> during the
> > semester, as soon as the semester is complete.
> >
> > The goal is to hide most of the programming from the students.  But
> > not all of it.  I think it is very important for any user of a menu
> > system to have at least a rudimentary idea of the
> programming steps behind the menu.
> > Rcmdr supports this goal since it functions by generating R
> language
> > statements from the menu selections and displaying the
> generated statements.
> > For example, I will casually change the cex or ylim of a generated
> > plot statement.  I post the script window (generated and edited
> > statements) from each class to the course website.  I do
> not post the output window.
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > [hidden email] mailing list
> > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> > PLEASE do read the posting guide!
> > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> >

______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [O/T] undergrads and R

Ales Ziberna
Dear John Fox,

thank you for your reply. I appologize for not finding the "sort.names"
option myself.

As for the option of choosing several variables at a time, I would like
to see this possibility everywhere where possible. Let me give a few
examples:
1. Calculating the mean of several variables (for example, I often want
to compute the mean of a set of variables measuring the same concept)
2. Recoding a set of variables with the same rule
3. Transforming a set of variables from factor to numeric or vice verse.
(This would be especially useful when using data read from SPSS, as all
variables with labels are converted to factors. These are often ordinal
variables measured on 5 or more point scale, which are often as close as
you can get in social sciences to interval variables. However for most
of the analysis (like regression, factor analysis ...), they have to be
treated as numeric.)

As to how this should be done, I agree that a check-box to select all
numeric variables might be to "no thingking" approach. I would just like
to have an option to select several variables, the same way as is done
now in for example factor analysis.

I do understand that you want the students to think what they are doing.
However I would like to present them the R commander as an alternative
to SPSS also for doing their assignments for other courses and I do not
believe they would be willing to make the change if they have to do so
much "clicks" just to compute averages for let say 20 variables.

I personally think that it is enough that the software does not allow
you (or the students) to do "wrong things" (like computing a mean of the
factor), especially not without thinking about it.

Another option I would like are:
1. An option to save (or actually to not delete) the results of let say
factor analysis, so I could use them for further analysis.
2. Currently, if I create a factor via command line, it is not
recognized my the menus (for example, I can not do a frequency table).
  If I select a different data frame and then again the previous one as
the active data frame, the new factor is now recognized in the menus. So
I would also be satisfied by a refresh option for the active data frame.

That would be all for now. Thanks again for the reply and for creating
Rcmdr in the first place.

Best regards,
Ales


John Fox pravi:

> Dear Ales,
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ales Ziberna [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 1:15 AM
>> To: Richard M. Heiberger
>> Cc: [hidden email]; John Fox
>> Subject: Re: [R] [O/T] undergrads and R
>>
>> I will be also using R commander with undergrad students, who
>> actually already have some experience with R, however they
>> have been using it more as programing language than a
>> statistical tool and I want to get them more familiar with
>> this aspect of R.
>>
>> First, when I had my first look at R commander, I really
>> liked it, however, when I did a little more experiments, I
>> found it quite frustrating at times, especially by the fact
>> that when computing a certain statistics (for example mean),
>> you can select only one variable at the time. Are there any
>> plans to change this, so that a number of variables could be
>> chosen?
>
> This was a deliberate choice, made to discourage students from computing
> statistics without thinking about them, but perhaps it's wrongheaded. I'd be
> interested to hear what people think.
>
> It would be very simple to change the Numerical Summaries dialog to permit
> more than one variable to be selected (in fact you could do it and recompile
> the package if you wished). Are you referring only to the "Statistics ->
> Summaries -> Numerical summaries" dialog, or are there other places where
> you'd like more than one variable to be selected? Would you like a check-box
> to select all numeric variables?
>
> More generally, I'm open to considering suggestions for improving the Rcmdr.
>
>> I would also prefer to have the variables sorted the
>> same way as they are in the data frame and and not
>> alphabetically.
>
> See the sort.names Rcmdr option, described in ?Commander.
>
> Regards,
>  John
>
>> If this two (what I believe minor) things
>> could be improved, I would find R commander much more usable.
>>
>> Otherwise, I find it a grate package, especially when working
>> with social sciences students.
>>
>> Does anyone else have similar filings.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Ales Ziberna
>>
>> Richard M. Heiberger pravi:
>>> This semester for the first time I have been using the
>> combination of
>>> R, R Commander (John Fox's package providing a menu-driven
>> interface
>>> to R), and RExcel (Erich Neuwirth's package for interfacing R with
>>> Excel).  The audience is the introductory Statistics class for
>>> Business undergradutes.  The short summary is that I think the
>>> combination works well for this audience.
>>>
>>> I will be talking on my experience at the useR! conference
>> in June.  I
>>> added several additional menu items to Rcmdr for our group.  I sent
>>> the January ones (prior to the beginning of the semester)
>> to John Fox in January.
>>> I will send another batch of menu items, those constructed
>> during the
>>> semester, as soon as the semester is complete.
>>>
>>> The goal is to hide most of the programming from the students.  But
>>> not all of it.  I think it is very important for any user of a menu
>>> system to have at least a rudimentary idea of the
>> programming steps behind the menu.
>>> Rcmdr supports this goal since it functions by generating R
>> language
>>> statements from the menu selections and displaying the
>> generated statements.
>>> For example, I will casually change the cex or ylim of a generated
>>> plot statement.  I post the script window (generated and edited
>>> statements) from each class to the course website.  I do
>> not post the output window.
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> [hidden email] mailing list
>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>>> PLEASE do read the posting guide!
>>> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
>>>
>
>

______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [O/T] undergrads and R

Fox, John
Dear Ales,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ales Ziberna
> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 5:21 AM
> To: John Fox
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [R] [O/T] undergrads and R
>
> Dear John Fox,
>
> thank you for your reply. I appologize for not finding the
> "sort.names"
> option myself.
>
> As for the option of choosing several variables at a time, I
> would like to see this possibility everywhere where possible.
> Let me give a few
> examples:
> 1. Calculating the mean of several variables (for example, I
> often want to compute the mean of a set of variables
> measuring the same concept) 2. Recoding a set of variables
> with the same rule

These would be useful and easy to do (though for 2. I'd have to provide a
way to name the new variables). BTW, it would help to have a complete set of
suggestions: I'd probably not have thought of 2. (You could send me your
suggestions off-list.) I intend to work on a new version of the Rcmdr this
summer, and, although I can't promise to incorporate all suggestions, I'll
certainly consider them carefully.

> 3. Transforming a set of variables from
> factor to numeric or vice verse.

This could get a bit convoluted, since the numeric-to-factor dialog asks you
(optionally) to specify level names and rename the factor. I don't currently
provide for converting factors to numeric, and would worry about misuse
(though you can do this as a recode).

> (This would be especially useful when using data read from
> SPSS, as all variables with labels are converted to factors.
> These are often ordinal variables measured on 5 or more point
> scale, which are often as close as you can get in social
> sciences to interval variables. However for most of the
> analysis (like regression, factor analysis ...), they have to
> be treated as numeric.)
>

Couldn't you do this with a redesigned Recode dialog?

> As to how this should be done, I agree that a check-box to
> select all numeric variables might be to "no thingking"
> approach. I would just like to have an option to select
> several variables, the same way as is done now in for example
> factor analysis.
>
> I do understand that you want the students to think what they
> are doing.
> However I would like to present them the R commander as an
> alternative to SPSS also for doing their assignments for
> other courses and I do not believe they would be willing to
> make the change if they have to do so much "clicks" just to
> compute averages for let say 20 variables.
>
> I personally think that it is enough that the software does
> not allow you (or the students) to do "wrong things" (like
> computing a mean of the factor), especially not without
> thinking about it.
>
> Another option I would like are:
> 1. An option to save (or actually to not delete) the results
> of let say factor analysis, so I could use them for further analysis.

What would you like to save? Currently, you can save factor scores. The R
Commander is designed around an active data set and an active statistical
model. I'm open to incorporating other data structures, but suspect that in
most instances that would lead me outside the boundaries of the R Commander
or require a major redesign. Anyway, it's hard to tell without some more
information about what you'd like.

> 2. Currently, if I create a factor via command line, it is
> not recognized my the menus (for example, I can not do a
> frequency table).
>   If I select a different data frame and then again the
> previous one as the active data frame, the new factor is now
> recognized in the menus. So I would also be satisfied by a
> refresh option for the active data frame.
>

If I follow this properly, then it doesn't seem to be correct. For example,
if the data frame Data is the Rcmdr active data set then the command

Data$new.variable <- ...

executed in the R console or in the Rcmdr Command window will immediately
make the variable new.variable accessible in the Rcmdr.

Regards,
 John

> That would be all for now. Thanks again for the reply and for
> creating Rcmdr in the first place.
>
> Best regards,
> Ales
>
>
> John Fox pravi:
> > Dear Ales,
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Ales Ziberna [mailto:[hidden email]]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 1:15 AM
> >> To: Richard M. Heiberger
> >> Cc: [hidden email]; John Fox
> >> Subject: Re: [R] [O/T] undergrads and R
> >>
> >> I will be also using R commander with undergrad students, who
> >> actually already have some experience with R, however they
> have been
> >> using it more as programing language than a statistical tool and I
> >> want to get them more familiar with this aspect of R.
> >>
> >> First, when I had my first look at R commander, I really liked it,
> >> however, when I did a little more experiments, I found it quite
> >> frustrating at times, especially by the fact that when computing a
> >> certain statistics (for example mean), you can select only one
> >> variable at the time. Are there any plans to change this,
> so that a
> >> number of variables could be chosen?
> >
> > This was a deliberate choice, made to discourage students from
> > computing statistics without thinking about them, but perhaps it's
> > wrongheaded. I'd be interested to hear what people think.
> >
> > It would be very simple to change the Numerical Summaries dialog to
> > permit more than one variable to be selected (in fact you
> could do it
> > and recompile the package if you wished). Are you referring only to
> > the "Statistics -> Summaries -> Numerical summaries" dialog, or are
> > there other places where you'd like more than one variable to be
> > selected? Would you like a check-box to select all numeric
> variables?
> >
> > More generally, I'm open to considering suggestions for
> improving the Rcmdr.
> >
> >> I would also prefer to have the variables sorted the same
> way as they
> >> are in the data frame and and not alphabetically.
> >
> > See the sort.names Rcmdr option, described in ?Commander.
> >
> > Regards,
> >  John
> >
> >> If this two (what I believe minor) things could be
> improved, I would
> >> find R commander much more usable.
> >>
> >> Otherwise, I find it a grate package, especially when working with
> >> social sciences students.
> >>
> >> Does anyone else have similar filings.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> Ales Ziberna
> >>
> >> Richard M. Heiberger pravi:
> >>> This semester for the first time I have been using the
> >> combination of
> >>> R, R Commander (John Fox's package providing a menu-driven
> >> interface
> >>> to R), and RExcel (Erich Neuwirth's package for
> interfacing R with
> >>> Excel).  The audience is the introductory Statistics class for
> >>> Business undergradutes.  The short summary is that I think the
> >>> combination works well for this audience.
> >>>
> >>> I will be talking on my experience at the useR! conference
> >> in June.  I
> >>> added several additional menu items to Rcmdr for our
> group.  I sent
> >>> the January ones (prior to the beginning of the semester)
> >> to John Fox in January.
> >>> I will send another batch of menu items, those constructed
> >> during the
> >>> semester, as soon as the semester is complete.
> >>>
> >>> The goal is to hide most of the programming from the
> students.  But
> >>> not all of it.  I think it is very important for any user
> of a menu
> >>> system to have at least a rudimentary idea of the
> >> programming steps behind the menu.
> >>> Rcmdr supports this goal since it functions by generating R
> >> language
> >>> statements from the menu selections and displaying the
> >> generated statements.
> >>> For example, I will casually change the cex or ylim of a
> generated
> >>> plot statement.  I post the script window (generated and edited
> >>> statements) from each class to the course website.  I do
> >> not post the output window.
> >>> ______________________________________________
> >>> [hidden email] mailing list
> >>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> >>> PLEASE do read the posting guide!
> >>> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> >>>
> >
> >
>
> ______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide!
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html

______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html