SUGGESTION: R Base Packages

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SUGGESTION: R Base Packages

TELLERIA RUIZ DE AGUIRRE, JUAN
Dear R Developers,

I am writing for doing the following suggestions:


*         Bugs:

o   Add in Bugzilla an Area in order to request membership for bug reporting, which shall itself include another area to introduce a little dissertation for justifying "Why someone would like to be a member of Bugzilla" for being able to report proper bugs, and avoid spam.

o   Now, new R serious members cannot report properly bugs.



*         That, in the R Base distribution, the following packages are included as default (pre-installed):

o   ggplot2.

o   dplyr.

o   tidyr.



As in 2017, these are essential, in my opinion, in R programming.


*         And that, as regards R Project:

o   Improve the CRAN & R Project web pages, giving them a more modern look and feel (Such as the Python.org webpage), in order to "sell" better R to the everybody.

o   Improve the basic GUI distributed with R, with some of the core features of RStudio Desktop (GPL). Or even make RStudio Desktop to replace the R default GUI, with another name, in its executable version.

o   Enable a Suggestion web page / forum in the R Project webpage in order to boost core R Open Innovation.

Thank you all.



        [[alternative HTML version deleted]]

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Re: SUGGESTION: R Base Packages

frederik-2
Hello!

Thanks to Juan for his suggestions. I would like to voice my opinion
for and against some of these.

> o   Add in Bugzilla an Area in order to request membership for bug reporting, which shall itself include another area to introduce a little dissertation for justifying "Why someone would like to be a member of Bugzilla" for being able to report proper bugs, and avoid spam.
>
> o   Now, new R serious members cannot report properly bugs.

I too was annoyed by the state of the bug reporting system when I
first started using R, and that was even before automatic account
creation was disabled. I think the situation could be improved. I
don't think it's a huge burden to tell bug reporters to ask for an
account via the R-devel mailing list. But from what I can see the bug
tracker doesn't make it clear that this has to be done. We should at
least post a message on the main page explaining how people can create
an account. This would be less work than what Juan is suggesting, but
I think sufficient for our needs.

> *         That, in the R Base distribution, the following packages are included as default (pre-installed):
>
> o   ggplot2.
>
> o   dplyr.
>
> o   tidyr.

I think this is a terrible idea. I've only been using R for a few
years and while I find these "tidyverse" packages interesting and use
them on occasion, I've also concluded that they change too quickly to
be used in code that I want to stay working for a long time. They are
largely based on experimental concepts. Being able to change and
evolve is part of the strength of these packages. So I think putting
them in the R Base distribution would be bad for all parties.

> *         And that, as regards R Project:
>
> o   Improve the CRAN & R Project web pages, giving them a more modern look and feel (Such as the Python.org webpage), in order to "sell" better R to the everybody.
>
> o   Improve the basic GUI distributed with R, with some of the core features of RStudio Desktop (GPL). Or even make RStudio Desktop to replace the R default GUI, with another name, in its executable version.
>
> o   Enable a Suggestion web page / forum in the R Project webpage in order to boost core R Open Innovation.

I think the R project web page looks great. It's simple and it loads
quickly and doesn't try to mesmerize people. I like R's command line
interface. It completes on symbols and files and I can easily use it
with my favorite editor and run it in the terminal of my choice. I
don't think that more effort should be put into developing bloated
GUIs which try to enforce a standard way of interacting with R.

I think a "forum" or bulletin board system would be a detraction from
the project and a distraction for the project leaders. Users have
Stack Exchange - it's better than any forum we could create, and it
takes care of itself.

That's my two cents, more or less.

Thanks,

Frederick

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Re: SUGGESTION: R Base Packages

TELLERIA RUIZ DE AGUIRRE, JUAN
Thank you Frederick for your comments:

They are really well justified.

> I think a "forum" or bulletin board system would be a detraction from the project and a distraction for the project leaders. Users have Stack Exchange - it's better than any forum we could create, and it
> takes care of itself.

An excellent idea would be to add in the R Project Webpage a link to RSeek, in order to put all together. This can be done in a fast and easy way.

> I too was annoyed by the state of the bug reporting system when I first started using R, and that was even before automatic account creation was disabled. I think the situation could be improved.
> I don't think it's a huge burden to tell bug reporters to ask for an account via the R-devel mailing list. But from what I can see the bug tracker doesn't make it clear that this has to be done. We should at
> least post a message on the main page explaining how people can create an account. This would be less work than what Juan is suggesting, but I think sufficient for our needs.

Yes, clarifying in the RProject webpage that accounts could be requested for bug reporting in Bugzilla would be a great news, but it shall be really good justified.

> I think this is a terrible idea. I've only been using R for a few years and while I find these "tidyverse" packages interesting and use them on occasion, I've also concluded that they change too quickly to
> be used in code that I want to stay working for a long time. They are largely based on experimental concepts. Being able to change and evolve is part of the strength of these packages. So I think putting
> them in the R Base distribution would be bad for all parties.

Totally agree.

> I think the R project web page looks great. It's simple and it loads quickly and doesn't try to mesmerize people. I like R's command line interface. It completes on symbols and files and I can easily use it
> with my favorite editor and run it in the terminal of my choice. I don't think that more effort should be put into developing bloated GUIs which try to enforce a standard way of interacting with R.

I agree, but, in my opinion,  the RGUI icons  shall have a little bit more modern look. Just a bit.

Thank you,
Juan

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Re: SUGGESTION: R Base Packages

Spencer Graves-3


On 2017-05-18 2:18 AM, TELLERIA RUIZ DE AGUIRRE, JUAN wrote:

> Thank you Frederick for your comments:
>
> They are really well justified.
>
>> I think a "forum" or bulletin board system would be a detraction from the project and a distraction for the project leaders. Users have Stack Exchange - it's better than any forum we could create, and it
>> takes care of itself.
> An excellent idea would be to add in the R Project Webpage a link to RSeek, in order to put all together. This can be done in a fast and easy way.
>
>> I too was annoyed by the state of the bug reporting system when I first started using R, and that was even before automatic account creation was disabled. I think the situation could be improved.
>> I don't think it's a huge burden to tell bug reporters to ask for an account via the R-devel mailing list. But from what I can see the bug tracker doesn't make it clear that this has to be done. We should at
>> least post a message on the main page explaining how people can create an account. This would be less work than what Juan is suggesting, but I think sufficient for our needs.
> Yes, clarifying in the RProject webpage that accounts could be requested for bug reporting in Bugzilla would be a great news, but it shall be really good justified.
>
>> I think this is a terrible idea. I've only been using R for a few years and while I find these "tidyverse" packages interesting and use them on occasion, I've also concluded that they change too quickly to
>> be used in code that I want to stay working for a long time. They are largely based on experimental concepts. Being able to change and evolve is part of the strength of these packages. So I think putting
>> them in the R Base distribution would be bad for all parties.
> Totally agree.
>
>> I think the R project web page looks great. It's simple and it loads quickly and doesn't try to mesmerize people.


       I like that description "mesmerize":  I despise web pages with
anything that moves.  I don't surf the net for entertainment:  I want
information.  Anything that moves is a distraction and makes it harder
for me to find what I want.


        Spencer Graves


>> I like R's command line interface. It completes on symbols and files and I can easily use it
>> with my favorite editor and run it in the terminal of my choice. I don't think that more effort should be put into developing bloated GUIs which try to enforce a standard way of interacting with R.
> I agree, but, in my opinion,  the RGUI icons  shall have a little bit more modern look. Just a bit.
>
> Thank you,
> Juan
>
> ______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel

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Re: SUGGESTION: R Base Packages

Marc Schwartz-3
In reply to this post by TELLERIA RUIZ DE AGUIRRE, JUAN

> On May 18, 2017, at 2:18 AM, TELLERIA RUIZ DE AGUIRRE, JUAN <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thank you Frederick for your comments:
>
> They are really well justified.
>
>> I think a "forum" or bulletin board system would be a detraction from the project and a distraction for the project leaders. Users have Stack Exchange - it's better than any forum we could create, and it
>> takes care of itself.
>
> An excellent idea would be to add in the R Project Webpage a link to RSeek, in order to put all together. This can be done in a fast and easy way.


Hi,

It is already there, in two places:

  https://www.r-project.org/search.html

and

   https://www.r-project.org/help.html

both of those accessible from the navigation menu on the left side of the home page under "Search" and "Getting Help".

Regards,

Marc Schwartz


>
>> I too was annoyed by the state of the bug reporting system when I first started using R, and that was even before automatic account creation was disabled. I think the situation could be improved.
>> I don't think it's a huge burden to tell bug reporters to ask for an account via the R-devel mailing list. But from what I can see the bug tracker doesn't make it clear that this has to be done. We should at
>> least post a message on the main page explaining how people can create an account. This would be less work than what Juan is suggesting, but I think sufficient for our needs.
>
> Yes, clarifying in the RProject webpage that accounts could be requested for bug reporting in Bugzilla would be a great news, but it shall be really good justified.
>
>> I think this is a terrible idea. I've only been using R for a few years and while I find these "tidyverse" packages interesting and use them on occasion, I've also concluded that they change too quickly to
>> be used in code that I want to stay working for a long time. They are largely based on experimental concepts. Being able to change and evolve is part of the strength of these packages. So I think putting
>> them in the R Base distribution would be bad for all parties.
>
> Totally agree.
>
>> I think the R project web page looks great. It's simple and it loads quickly and doesn't try to mesmerize people. I like R's command line interface. It completes on symbols and files and I can easily use it
>> with my favorite editor and run it in the terminal of my choice. I don't think that more effort should be put into developing bloated GUIs which try to enforce a standard way of interacting with R.
>
> I agree, but, in my opinion,  the RGUI icons  shall have a little bit more modern look. Just a bit.
>
> Thank you,
> Juan

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