Whine in dual core Windows PC if R uses full CPU capacity

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Whine in dual core Windows PC if R uses full CPU capacity

Ulrike Grömping-2
Dear R-developers,

the following may seem a weird question for R-devel – I try anyway, because it
does seem to be related to usage of R and R's way of interacting with the
hardware.

When running R (2.4.0) on my new dual core Windows XP system (Intel Core 2 Duo
E6600, Mainboard ASUS P5B, BeQuiet Power Unit), I observe various types of
sounds (not related to fans) when running at full usage of at least one of the
cores.

The most annoying sound – a high-pitched noise like a whine – I have so far
observed running simulations in R only and couldn’t reproduce with any other
software (sometimes it’s also more a rustle than a whine, that one is not
disturbing). I can clearly track it down to particular instances of R – as
soon as I left-click on a blue window bar in the affected R-Gui, the noise
stops (and there are sometimes other instances of R running in parallel which
are completely unrelated to the whine). I’ve also stopped R when the computer
just whined and started SAS, fully using the CPU as well – no whine. Shut down
SAS, restart R à whine again. Apparently, it can also be related to what
exactly R is doing at the particular moment. For example, I just discovered
that simulations of one type were finished, because the computer – running
another simulation under full load on R in a quiet way – started whining at
the moment it switched to the new type of simulation.

The hardware technician I’ve asked about this issue does not have any idea and
suspects R to do something peculiar that causes the noise. It’s not the
mainboards fault (that has already been changed for another reason, and the
behavior remains). I can’t definitely locate the source of the sound. I
suspect that it’s the Power Unit, but there are so many parts close together
that I am not really sure.

I do not know enough about interactions of R with hardware to know whether it
is even possible for anyone deeper into the matter to develop an idea what
could be behind this behavior. For the moment, I can get rid of the whine by
using the mainboard tool „AI Gear“ to reduce the processor’s speed from 2.4GHz
to 1.7GHz when I want to concentrate – then the whine is gone (but the
simulation is slower).

Does anyone have any idea – or hints regarding what else I could think about ?

Regards, Ulrike

******************************
Prof. Dr. Ulrike Grömping
Fachbereich II
TFH Berlin
Luxemburger Str. 10
13353 Berlin
mail: [hidden email]
www: www.tfh-berlin.de/~groemp/
******************************

------- End of Forwarded Message -------

******************************
Prof. Dr. Ulrike Grömping
Fachbereich II
TFH Berlin
Luxemburger Str. 10
13353 Berlin
mail: [hidden email]
www: www.tfh-berlin.de/~groemp/
******************************

 

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Re: Whine in dual core Windows PC if R uses full CPU capacity

Duncan Murdoch
On 1/15/2007 12:02 PM, Ulrike Grömping wrote:

> Dear R-developers,
>
> the following may seem a weird question for R-devel – I try anyway, because it
> does seem to be related to usage of R and R's way of interacting with the
> hardware.
>
> When running R (2.4.0) on my new dual core Windows XP system (Intel Core 2 Duo
> E6600, Mainboard ASUS P5B, BeQuiet Power Unit), I observe various types of
> sounds (not related to fans) when running at full usage of at least one of the
> cores.
>
> The most annoying sound – a high-pitched noise like a whine – I have so far
> observed running simulations in R only and couldn’t reproduce with any other
> software (sometimes it’s also more a rustle than a whine, that one is not
> disturbing). I can clearly track it down to particular instances of R – as
> soon as I left-click on a blue window bar in the affected R-Gui, the noise
> stops (and there are sometimes other instances of R running in parallel which
> are completely unrelated to the whine). I’ve also stopped R when the computer
> just whined and started SAS, fully using the CPU as well – no whine. Shut down
> SAS, restart R à whine again. Apparently, it can also be related to what
> exactly R is doing at the particular moment. For example, I just discovered
> that simulations of one type were finished, because the computer – running
> another simulation under full load on R in a quiet way – started whining at
> the moment it switched to the new type of simulation.
>
> The hardware technician I’ve asked about this issue does not have any idea and
> suspects R to do something peculiar that causes the noise. It’s not the
> mainboards fault (that has already been changed for another reason, and the
> behavior remains). I can’t definitely locate the source of the sound. I
> suspect that it’s the Power Unit, but there are so many parts close together
> that I am not really sure.
>
> I do not know enough about interactions of R with hardware to know whether it
> is even possible for anyone deeper into the matter to develop an idea what
> could be behind this behavior. For the moment, I can get rid of the whine by
> using the mainboard tool „AI Gear“ to reduce the processor’s speed from 2.4GHz
> to 1.7GHz when I want to concentrate – then the whine is gone (but the
> simulation is slower).

I haven't heard this from R, but on occasion I've had noisy CPUs.  I
suspect it's a case of some repetitive calculation leading to repetitive
electric fields which happen to cause physical resonance of some part of
your system.  That agrees with the observation that changing the speed
changed the noisiness.  Another way to get rid of it would be to change
the contents of the loop:  make it run faster or slower and the noise
should go away.

Duncan Murdoch

>
> Does anyone have any idea – or hints regarding what else I could think about ?
>
> Regards, Ulrike
>
> ******************************
> Prof. Dr. Ulrike Grömping
> Fachbereich II
> TFH Berlin
> Luxemburger Str. 10
> 13353 Berlin
> mail: [hidden email]
> www: www.tfh-berlin.de/~groemp/
> ******************************
>
> ------- End of Forwarded Message -------
>
> ******************************
> Prof. Dr. Ulrike Grömping
> Fachbereich II
> TFH Berlin
> Luxemburger Str. 10
> 13353 Berlin
> mail: [hidden email]
> www: www.tfh-berlin.de/~groemp/
> ******************************
>
>  
>
> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel

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Re: Whine in dual core Windows PC if R uses full CPU capacity

Uwe Ligges
In reply to this post by Ulrike Grömping-2
Ulrike,

It can happen that different types of simulations and programs can put
load on different regions of the CPU and comsume different amounts of
power or simply are causing different patterns in the power consumptions


Two things might cause the noise (at least, I have seen these things in
Dortmund before), given in the order I would look at it at:

1. the power supply
2. some "Spule" (sorry folks, I don't know the english word) on the
mainboard (in most of the cases ASUS is quite OK and does not produce
such stuff)

If the former, buy a better one, if the latter, you can put some paper
or part of old cloth around it.

Best,
Uwe



Ulrike Grömping wrote:

> Dear R-developers,
>
> the following may seem a weird question for R-devel – I try anyway, because it
> does seem to be related to usage of R and R's way of interacting with the
> hardware.
>
> When running R (2.4.0) on my new dual core Windows XP system (Intel Core 2 Duo
> E6600, Mainboard ASUS P5B, BeQuiet Power Unit), I observe various types of
> sounds (not related to fans) when running at full usage of at least one of the
> cores.
>
> The most annoying sound – a high-pitched noise like a whine – I have so far
> observed running simulations in R only and couldn’t reproduce with any other
> software (sometimes it’s also more a rustle than a whine, that one is not
> disturbing). I can clearly track it down to particular instances of R – as
> soon as I left-click on a blue window bar in the affected R-Gui, the noise
> stops (and there are sometimes other instances of R running in parallel which
> are completely unrelated to the whine). I’ve also stopped R when the computer
> just whined and started SAS, fully using the CPU as well – no whine. Shut down
> SAS, restart R à whine again. Apparently, it can also be related to what
> exactly R is doing at the particular moment. For example, I just discovered
> that simulations of one type were finished, because the computer – running
> another simulation under full load on R in a quiet way – started whining at
> the moment it switched to the new type of simulation.
>
> The hardware technician I’ve asked about this issue does not have any idea and
> suspects R to do something peculiar that causes the noise. It’s not the
> mainboards fault (that has already been changed for another reason, and the
> behavior remains). I can’t definitely locate the source of the sound. I
> suspect that it’s the Power Unit, but there are so many parts close together
> that I am not really sure.
>
> I do not know enough about interactions of R with hardware to know whether it
> is even possible for anyone deeper into the matter to develop an idea what
> could be behind this behavior. For the moment, I can get rid of the whine by
> using the mainboard tool „AI Gear“ to reduce the processor’s speed from 2.4GHz
> to 1.7GHz when I want to concentrate – then the whine is gone (but the
> simulation is slower).
>
> Does anyone have any idea – or hints regarding what else I could think about ?
>
> Regards, Ulrike
>
> ******************************
> Prof. Dr. Ulrike Grömping
> Fachbereich II
> TFH Berlin
> Luxemburger Str. 10
> 13353 Berlin
> mail: [hidden email]
> www: www.tfh-berlin.de/~groemp/
> ******************************
>
> ------- End of Forwarded Message -------
>
> ******************************
> Prof. Dr. Ulrike Grömping
> Fachbereich II
> TFH Berlin
> Luxemburger Str. 10
> 13353 Berlin
> mail: [hidden email]
> www: www.tfh-berlin.de/~groemp/
> ******************************
>
>  
>
> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel

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Re: Whine in dual core Windows PC if R uses full CPU capacity

Marc Schwartz
"Spule":  Spool or coil perhaps?:

  http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spule_(Elektrotechnik)

In addition to both Uwe's and Duncan's replies, it might be of value to
gather some additional empiric data, such as CPU Temps and Fan Speeds
and note if there is some threshold as to when this sound occurs.

An application that I have seen referenced, but do not use since I am on
Linux is:

  http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php

but you may want to do further reviews before using.

It is possible that even running at 100% CPU, as noted, there may be
certain types of operations that will result in higher CPU temps,
causing higher fan speeds. The sound may very well be coming from one or
more of the fans or housings in your system, as a result of vibration or
resonance.

In most current generations of computers, there are multiple fans in the
system. One or more on the power supply, one or more on the CPU itself
and perhaps others within the case to enhance airflow and cooling. The
same is the case in laptops.

HTH,

Marc Schwartz

On Mon, 2007-01-15 at 19:12 +0100, Uwe Ligges wrote:

> Ulrike,
>
> It can happen that different types of simulations and programs can put
> load on different regions of the CPU and comsume different amounts of
> power or simply are causing different patterns in the power consumptions
>
>
> Two things might cause the noise (at least, I have seen these things in
> Dortmund before), given in the order I would look at it at:
>
> 1. the power supply
> 2. some "Spule" (sorry folks, I don't know the english word) on the
> mainboard (in most of the cases ASUS is quite OK and does not produce
> such stuff)
>
> If the former, buy a better one, if the latter, you can put some paper
> or part of old cloth around it.
>
> Best,
> Uwe
>
>
>
> Ulrike Grömping wrote:
> > Dear R-developers,
> >
> > the following may seem a weird question for R-devel – I try anyway, because it
> > does seem to be related to usage of R and R's way of interacting with the
> > hardware.
> >
> > When running R (2.4.0) on my new dual core Windows XP system (Intel Core 2 Duo
> > E6600, Mainboard ASUS P5B, BeQuiet Power Unit), I observe various types of
> > sounds (not related to fans) when running at full usage of at least one of the
> > cores.
> >
> > The most annoying sound – a high-pitched noise like a whine – I have so far
> > observed running simulations in R only and couldn’t reproduce with any other
> > software (sometimes it’s also more a rustle than a whine, that one is not
> > disturbing). I can clearly track it down to particular instances of R – as
> > soon as I left-click on a blue window bar in the affected R-Gui, the noise
> > stops (and there are sometimes other instances of R running in parallel which
> > are completely unrelated to the whine). I’ve also stopped R when the computer
> > just whined and started SAS, fully using the CPU as well – no whine. Shut down
> > SAS, restart R à whine again. Apparently, it can also be related to what
> > exactly R is doing at the particular moment. For example, I just discovered
> > that simulations of one type were finished, because the computer – running
> > another simulation under full load on R in a quiet way – started whining at
> > the moment it switched to the new type of simulation.
> >
> > The hardware technician I’ve asked about this issue does not have any idea and
> > suspects R to do something peculiar that causes the noise. It’s not the
> > mainboards fault (that has already been changed for another reason, and the
> > behavior remains). I can’t definitely locate the source of the sound. I
> > suspect that it’s the Power Unit, but there are so many parts close together
> > that I am not really sure.
> >
> > I do not know enough about interactions of R with hardware to know whether it
> > is even possible for anyone deeper into the matter to develop an idea what
> > could be behind this behavior. For the moment, I can get rid of the whine by
> > using the mainboard tool „AI Gear“ to reduce the processor’s speed from 2.4GHz
> > to 1.7GHz when I want to concentrate – then the whine is gone (but the
> > simulation is slower).
> >
> > Does anyone have any idea – or hints regarding what else I could think about ?
> >
> > Regards, Ulrike
> >
> > ******************************
> > Prof. Dr. Ulrike Grömping
> > Fachbereich II
> > TFH Berlin
> > Luxemburger Str. 10
> > 13353 Berlin
> > mail: [hidden email]
> > www: www.tfh-berlin.de/~groemp/
> > ******************************
> >
> > ------- End of Forwarded Message -------
> >
> > ******************************
> > Prof. Dr. Ulrike Grömping
> > Fachbereich II
> > TFH Berlin
> > Luxemburger Str. 10
> > 13353 Berlin
> > mail: [hidden email]
> > www: www.tfh-berlin.de/~groemp/
> > ******************************
> >
> >  
> >
> > [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > [hidden email] mailing list
> > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
>
> ______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel

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Re: Whine in dual core Windows PC if R uses full CPU capacity

Ulrike Grömping-2
Marc,

actually I am running speedfan and can even change fan speed with it,and this does not do anything to the noise. I've had the noise occurboth with CPU temps of 51°C and 36°C, depending on whether I insist onlow CPU fan speed or allow almost 3000rpm. I've completely stopped thechassis fan with no noise reduction, the only remaining fan is thepower unit fan, which is almost always at something around 900rpm. SoI'm almost sure it is something closer to what Duncan or Uwe suggest.

The Power Unit's supplier actually offered to replace the unit (a 430WBeQuiet Dark Power Pro), so I will next try out whether this helps, Isuppose. I am however wondering, whether this has a chance of beinghelpful, because some gaming people on the internet claim that theirASUS main boards make all power units squeak, while the same powerunits are completely quiet in connection with other boards.

Regards, Ulrike

---------- Original Message -----------
From: Marc Schwartz <[hidden email]>
To: Uwe Ligges <[hidden email]>
Cc: Ulrike Grömping <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
Sent: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 13:08:08 -0600
Subject: Re: [Rd] Whine in dual core Windows PC if R uses full CPU capacity

> "Spule":  Spool or coil perhaps?:
>
>  http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spule_(Elektrotechnik)
>
> In addition to both Uwe's and Duncan's replies, it might be of value to
> gather some additional empiric data, such as CPU Temps and Fan Speeds
> and note if there is some threshold as to when this sound occurs.
>
> An application that I have seen referenced, but do not use since I am on
> Linux is:
>
>  http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php 
>
> but you may want to do further reviews before using.
>
> It is possible that even running at 100% CPU, as noted, there may be
> certain types of operations that will result in higher CPU temps,
> causing higher fan speeds. The sound may very well be coming from one or
> more of the fans or housings in your system, as a result of vibration or
> resonance.
>
> In most current generations of computers, there are multiple fans in the
> system. One or more on the power supply, one or more on the CPU itself
> and perhaps others within the case to enhance airflow and cooling. The
> same is the case in laptops.
>
> HTH,
>
> Marc Schwartz
>
> On Mon, 2007-01-15 at 19:12 +0100, Uwe Ligges wrote:
> > Ulrike,
> >
> > It can happen that different types of simulations and programs can put
> > load on different regions of the CPU and comsume different amounts of
> > power or simply are causing different patterns in the power consumptions
> >
> >
> > Two things might cause the noise (at least, I have seen these things in
> > Dortmund before), given in the order I would look at it at:
> >
> > 1. the power supply
> > 2. some "Spule" (sorry folks, I don't know the english word) on the
> > mainboard (in most of the cases ASUS is quite OK and does not produce
> > such stuff)
> >
> > If the former, buy a better one, if the latter, you can put some paper
> > or part of old cloth around it.
> >
> > Best,
> > Uwe
> >
> >
> >
> > Ulrike Grömping wrote:
> > > Dear R-developers,
> > >
> > > the following may seem a weird question for R-devel [UTF-8?]– I try anyway, because it
> > > does seem to be related to usage of R and R's way of interacting with the
> > > hardware.
> > >
> > > When running R (2.4.0) on my new dual core Windows XP system (Intel Core 2 Duo
> > > E6600, Mainboard ASUS P5B, BeQuiet Power Unit), I observe various types of
> > > sounds (not related to fans) when running at full usage of at least one of the
> > > cores.
> > >
> > > The most annoying sound [UTF-8?]– a high-pitched noise like a whine [UTF-8?]– I have so far
> > > observed running simulations in R only and [UTF-8?]couldn’t reproduce with any other
> > > software (sometimes [UTF-8?]it’s also more a rustle than a whine, that one is not
> > > disturbing). I can clearly track it down to particular instances of R [UTF-8?]– as
> > > soon as I left-click on a blue window bar in the affected R-Gui, the noise
> > > stops (and there are sometimes other instances of R running in parallel which
> > > are completely unrelated to the whine). [UTF-8?]I’ve also stopped R when the computer
> > > just whined and started SAS, fully using the CPU as well [UTF-8?]– no whine. Shut down
> > > SAS, restart R à whine again. Apparently, it can also be related to what
> > > exactly R is doing at the particular moment. For example, I just discovered
> > > that simulations of one type were finished, because the computer [UTF-8?]– running
> > > another simulation under full load on R in a quiet way [UTF-8?]– started whining at
> > > the moment it switched to the new type of simulation.
> > >
> > > The hardware technician [UTF-8?]I’ve asked about this issue does not have any idea and
> > > suspects R to do something peculiar that causes the noise. [UTF-8?]It’s not the
> > > mainboards fault (that has already been changed for another reason, and the
> > > behavior remains). I [UTF-8?]can’t definitely locate the source of the sound. I
> > > suspect that [UTF-8?]it’s the Power Unit, but there are so many parts close together
> > > that I am not really sure.
> > >
> > > I do not know enough about interactions of R with hardware to know whether it
> > > is even possible for anyone deeper into the matter to develop an idea what
> > > could be behind this behavior. For the moment, I can get rid of the whine by
> > > using the mainboard tool [UTF-8?]„AI [UTF-8?]Gear“ to reduce the [UTF-8?]processor’s speed from 2.4GHz
> > > to 1.7GHz when I want to concentrate [UTF-8?]– then the whine is gone (but the
> > > simulation is slower).
> > >
> > > Does anyone have any idea [UTF-8?]– or hints regarding what else I could think about ?
> > >
> > > Regards, Ulrike
> > >
> > > ******************************
> > > Prof. Dr. Ulrike Grömping
> > > Fachbereich II
> > > TFH Berlin
> > > Luxemburger Str. 10
> > > 13353 Berlin
> > > mail: [hidden email]
> > > www: www.tfh-berlin.de/~groemp/
> > > ******************************
> > >
> > > ------- End of Forwarded Message -------
> > >
> > > ******************************
> > > Prof. Dr. Ulrike Grömping
> > > Fachbereich II
> > > TFH Berlin
> > > Luxemburger Str. 10
> > > 13353 Berlin
> > > mail: [hidden email]
> > > www: www.tfh-berlin.de/~groemp/
> > > ******************************
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > >     [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________
> > > [hidden email] mailing list
> > > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel 
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > [hidden email] mailing list
> > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel 
------- End of Original Message -------
 

        [[alternative HTML version deleted]]


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Re: Whine in dual core Windows PC if R uses full CPU capacity

Ulrike Grömping-2
In reply to this post by Duncan Murdoch
Duncan,
thanks. Not knowing what is a quiet or noisy loop beforehand, I wouldn't like to do my programming around that theme though :-)
By the way, does your phrase "noisy CPUs" suggest noisy types of CPU or noisy individuals of generally ok types of CPU (you might not know that, though)?
Regards, Ulrike

---------- Original Message -----------
From: Duncan Murdoch <[hidden email]>
To: Ulrike Grömping <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Sent: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 13:07:10 -0500
Subject: Re: [Rd] Whine in dual core Windows PC if R uses full CPU capacity

> On 1/15/2007 12:02 PM, Ulrike Grömping wrote:
> > Dear R-developers,
> >
> > the following may seem a weird question for R-devel [WINDOWS-1252?]– I try anyway, because it
> > does seem to be related to usage of R and R's way of interacting with the
> > hardware.
> >
> > When running R (2.4.0) on my new dual core Windows XP system (Intel Core 2 Duo
> > E6600, Mainboard ASUS P5B, BeQuiet Power Unit), I observe various types of
> > sounds (not related to fans) when running at full usage of at least one of the
> > cores.
> >
> > The most annoying sound [WINDOWS-1252?]– a high-pitched noise like a whine [WINDOWS-1252?]– I have so far
> > observed running simulations in R only and [WINDOWS-1252?]couldn’t reproduce with any other
> > software (sometimes [WINDOWS-1252?]it’s also more a rustle than a whine, that one is not
> > disturbing). I can clearly track it down to particular instances of R [WINDOWS-1252?]– as
> > soon as I left-click on a blue window bar in the affected R-Gui, the noise
> > stops (and there are sometimes other instances of R running in parallel which
> > are completely unrelated to the whine). [WINDOWS-1252?]I’ve also stopped R when the computer
> > just whined and started SAS, fully using the CPU as well [WINDOWS-1252?]– no whine. Shut down
> > SAS, restart R à whine again. Apparently, it can also be related to what
> > exactly R is doing at the particular moment. For example, I just discovered
> > that simulations of one type were finished, because the computer [WINDOWS-1252?]– running
> > another simulation under full load on R in a quiet way [WINDOWS-1252?]– started whining at
> > the moment it switched to the new type of simulation.
> >
> > The hardware technician [WINDOWS-1252?]I’ve asked about this issue does not have any idea and
> > suspects R to do something peculiar that causes the noise. [WINDOWS-1252?]It’s not the
> > mainboards fault (that has already been changed for another reason, and the
> > behavior remains). I [WINDOWS-1252?]can’t definitely locate the source of the sound. I
> > suspect that [WINDOWS-1252?]it’s the Power Unit, but there are so many parts close together
> > that I am not really sure.
> >
> > I do not know enough about interactions of R with hardware to know whether it
> > is even possible for anyone deeper into the matter to develop an idea what
> > could be behind this behavior. For the moment, I can get rid of the whine by
> > using the mainboard tool [WINDOWS-1252?]„AI [WINDOWS-1252?]Gear“ to reduce the [WINDOWS-1252?]processor’s speed from 2.4GHz
> > to 1.7GHz when I want to concentrate [WINDOWS-1252?]– then the whine is gone (but the
> > simulation is slower).
>
> I haven't heard this from R, but on occasion I've had noisy CPUs.  I
> suspect it's a case of some repetitive calculation leading to repetitive
> electric fields which happen to cause physical resonance of some part of
> your system.  That agrees with the observation that changing the speed
> changed the noisiness.  Another way to get rid of it would be to change
> the contents of the loop:  make it run faster or slower and the noise
> should go away.
>
> Duncan Murdoch
>
> >
> > Does anyone have any idea [WINDOWS-1252?]– or hints regarding what else I could think about ?
> >
> > Regards, Ulrike
> >
> > ******************************
> > Prof. Dr. Ulrike Grömping
> > Fachbereich II
> > TFH Berlin
> > Luxemburger Str. 10
> > 13353 Berlin
> > mail: [hidden email]
> > www: www.tfh-berlin.de/~groemp/
> > ******************************
> >
> > ------- End of Forwarded Message -------
> >
> > ******************************
> > Prof. Dr. Ulrike Grömping
> > Fachbereich II
> > TFH Berlin
> > Luxemburger Str. 10
> > 13353 Berlin
> > mail: [hidden email]
> > www: www.tfh-berlin.de/~groemp/
> > ******************************
> >
> >  
> >
> >     [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > [hidden email] mailing list
> > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel 
------- End of Original Message -------
 

        [[alternative HTML version deleted]]


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Re: Whine in dual core Windows PC if R uses full CPU capacity

Marc Schwartz
In reply to this post by Ulrike Grömping-2
Ulrike,

Well, it sounds like you are doing the correct things.  Nice to know
that Speedfan seems to work well.

The comments from others on the ASUS boards would certainly seem to
support Duncan's and Uwe's hypotheses.

If the supplier is willing to replace the power unit, it is certainly
worth trying.

If however it does not work, is there an option from your hardware
vendor to replace the motherboard with something other than ASUS?
Presumably, this is annoying enough to be worth pursuing.

Regards,

Marc

On Mon, 2007-01-15 at 20:35 +0100, Ulrike Grömping wrote:

> Marc,
>
> actually I am running speedfan and can even change fan speed with
> it,and this does not do anything to the noise. I've had the noise
> occurboth with CPU temps of 51C and 36C, depending on whether I insist
> onlow CPU fan speed or allow almost 3000rpm. I've completely stopped
> thechassis fan with no noise reduction, the only remaining fan is
> thepower unit fan, which is almost always at something around 900rpm.
> SoI'm almost sure it is something closer to what Duncan or Uwe
> suggest.
>
> The Power Unit's supplier actually offered to replace the unit (a
> 430WBeQuiet Dark Power Pro), so I will next try out whether this
> helps, Isuppose. I am however wondering, whether this has a chance of
> beinghelpful, because some gaming people on the internet claim that
> theirASUS main boards make all power units squeak, while the same
> powerunits are completely quiet in connection with other boards.
>
> Regards, Ulrike
>
> ---------- Original Message -----------
> From: Marc Schwartz <[hidden email]>
> To: Uwe Ligges <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Ulrike Grmping <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
> Sent: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 13:08:08 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Rd] Whine in dual core Windows PC if R uses full CPU capacity
>
> > "Spule": Spool or coil perhaps?:
> >
> > http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spule_(Elektrotechnik)
> >
> > In addition to both Uwe's and Duncan's replies, it might be of value to
> > gather some additional empiric data, such as CPU Temps and Fan Speeds
> > and note if there is some threshold as to when this sound occurs.
> >
> > An application that I have seen referenced, but do not use since I am on
> > Linux is:
> >
> > http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php 
> >
> > but you may want to do further reviews before using.
> >
> > It is possible that even running at 100% CPU, as noted, there may be
> > certain types of operations that will result in higher CPU temps,
> > causing higher fan speeds. The sound may very well be coming from one or
> > more of the fans or housings in your system, as a result of vibration or
> > resonance.
> >
> > In most current generations of computers, there are multiple fans in the
> > system. One or more on the power supply, one or more on the CPU itself
> > and perhaps others within the case to enhance airflow and cooling. The
> > same is the case in laptops.
> >
> > HTH,
> >
> > Marc Schwartz

<snip>

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Re: Whine in dual core Windows PC if R uses full CPU capacity

Gabor Grothendieck
In reply to this post by Ulrike Grömping-2
I don't think it would be necessary to do any programming.  Just run
another program at the same time.

On 1/15/07, Ulrike Grömping <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Duncan,
> thanks. Not knowing what is a quiet or noisy loop beforehand, I wouldn't like to do my programming around that theme though :-)
> By the way, does your phrase "noisy CPUs" suggest noisy types of CPU or noisy individuals of generally ok types of CPU (you might not know that, though)?
> Regards, Ulrike
>
> ---------- Original Message -----------
> From: Duncan Murdoch <[hidden email]>
> To: Ulrike Grömping <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Sent: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 13:07:10 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Rd] Whine in dual core Windows PC if R uses full CPU capacity
>
> > On 1/15/2007 12:02 PM, Ulrike Grömping wrote:
> > > Dear R-developers,
> > >
> > > the following may seem a weird question for R-devel [WINDOWS-1252?]– I try anyway, because it
> > > does seem to be related to usage of R and R's way of interacting with the
> > > hardware.
> > >
> > > When running R (2.4.0) on my new dual core Windows XP system (Intel Core 2 Duo
> > > E6600, Mainboard ASUS P5B, BeQuiet Power Unit), I observe various types of
> > > sounds (not related to fans) when running at full usage of at least one of the
> > > cores.
> > >
> > > The most annoying sound [WINDOWS-1252?]– a high-pitched noise like a whine [WINDOWS-1252?]– I have so far
> > > observed running simulations in R only and [WINDOWS-1252?]couldn't reproduce with any other
> > > software (sometimes [WINDOWS-1252?]it's also more a rustle than a whine, that one is not
> > > disturbing). I can clearly track it down to particular instances of R [WINDOWS-1252?]– as
> > > soon as I left-click on a blue window bar in the affected R-Gui, the noise
> > > stops (and there are sometimes other instances of R running in parallel which
> > > are completely unrelated to the whine). [WINDOWS-1252?]I've also stopped R when the computer
> > > just whined and started SAS, fully using the CPU as well [WINDOWS-1252?]– no whine. Shut down
> > > SAS, restart R à whine again. Apparently, it can also be related to what
> > > exactly R is doing at the particular moment. For example, I just discovered
> > > that simulations of one type were finished, because the computer [WINDOWS-1252?]– running
> > > another simulation under full load on R in a quiet way [WINDOWS-1252?]– started whining at
> > > the moment it switched to the new type of simulation.
> > >
> > > The hardware technician [WINDOWS-1252?]I've asked about this issue does not have any idea and
> > > suspects R to do something peculiar that causes the noise. [WINDOWS-1252?]It's not the
> > > mainboards fault (that has already been changed for another reason, and the
> > > behavior remains). I [WINDOWS-1252?]can't definitely locate the source of the sound. I
> > > suspect that [WINDOWS-1252?]it's the Power Unit, but there are so many parts close together
> > > that I am not really sure.
> > >
> > > I do not know enough about interactions of R with hardware to know whether it
> > > is even possible for anyone deeper into the matter to develop an idea what
> > > could be behind this behavior. For the moment, I can get rid of the whine by
> > > using the mainboard tool [WINDOWS-1252?]„AI [WINDOWS-1252?]Gear" to reduce the [WINDOWS-1252?]processor's speed from 2.4GHz
> > > to 1.7GHz when I want to concentrate [WINDOWS-1252?]– then the whine is gone (but the
> > > simulation is slower).
> >
> > I haven't heard this from R, but on occasion I've had noisy CPUs. I
> > suspect it's a case of some repetitive calculation leading to repetitive
> > electric fields which happen to cause physical resonance of some part of
> > your system. That agrees with the observation that changing the speed
> > changed the noisiness. Another way to get rid of it would be to change
> > the contents of the loop: make it run faster or slower and the noise
> > should go away.
> >
> > Duncan Murdoch
> >
> > >
> > > Does anyone have any idea [WINDOWS-1252?]– or hints regarding what else I could think about ?
> > >
> > > Regards, Ulrike
> > >
> > > ******************************
> > > Prof. Dr. Ulrike Grömping
> > > Fachbereich II
> > > TFH Berlin
> > > Luxemburger Str. 10
> > > 13353 Berlin
> > > mail: [hidden email]
> > > www: www.tfh-berlin.de/~groemp/
> > > ******************************
> > >
> > > ------- End of Forwarded Message -------
> > >
> > > ******************************
> > > Prof. Dr. Ulrike Grömping
> > > Fachbereich II
> > > TFH Berlin
> > > Luxemburger Str. 10
> > > 13353 Berlin
> > > mail: [hidden email]
> > > www: www.tfh-berlin.de/~groemp/
> > > ******************************
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________
> > > [hidden email] mailing list
> > > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
> ------- End of Original Message -------
>
>
>        [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
>
>
>

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Re: Whine in dual core Windows PC if R uses full CPU capacity

Duncan Murdoch
In reply to this post by Ulrike Grömping-2
On 1/15/2007 2:38 PM, Ulrike Grömping wrote:
> Duncan,
> thanks. Not knowing what is a quiet or noisy loop beforehand, I wouldn't like to do my programming around that theme though :-)
> By the way, does your phrase "noisy CPUs" suggest noisy types of CPU or noisy individuals of generally ok types of CPU (you might not know that, though)?

I think I've only come across it a couple of times, and didn't have any
replication, so I don't know if they were unusual individuals or a
design problem.  From your description of replacing the mb, it sounds as
though it's a design problem -- unless as Uwe suggested, it's a power
supply or some other part that you didn't replace.

Duncan Murdoch

> Regards, Ulrike
>
> ---------- Original Message -----------
> From: Duncan Murdoch <[hidden email]>
> To: Ulrike Grömping <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Sent: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 13:07:10 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Rd] Whine in dual core Windows PC if R uses full CPU capacity
>
>> On 1/15/2007 12:02 PM, Ulrike Grömping wrote:
>>> Dear R-developers,
>>>
>>> the following may seem a weird question for R-devel [WINDOWS-1252?]– I try anyway, because it
>>> does seem to be related to usage of R and R's way of interacting with the
>>> hardware.
>>>
>>> When running R (2.4.0) on my new dual core Windows XP system (Intel Core 2 Duo
>>> E6600, Mainboard ASUS P5B, BeQuiet Power Unit), I observe various types of
>>> sounds (not related to fans) when running at full usage of at least one of the
>>> cores.
>>>
>>> The most annoying sound [WINDOWS-1252?]– a high-pitched noise like a whine [WINDOWS-1252?]– I have so far
>>> observed running simulations in R only and [WINDOWS-1252?]couldn’t reproduce with any other
>>> software (sometimes [WINDOWS-1252?]it’s also more a rustle than a whine, that one is not
>>> disturbing). I can clearly track it down to particular instances of R [WINDOWS-1252?]– as
>>> soon as I left-click on a blue window bar in the affected R-Gui, the noise
>>> stops (and there are sometimes other instances of R running in parallel which
>>> are completely unrelated to the whine). [WINDOWS-1252?]I’ve also stopped R when the computer
>>> just whined and started SAS, fully using the CPU as well [WINDOWS-1252?]– no whine. Shut down
>>> SAS, restart R à whine again. Apparently, it can also be related to what
>>> exactly R is doing at the particular moment. For example, I just discovered
>>> that simulations of one type were finished, because the computer [WINDOWS-1252?]– running
>>> another simulation under full load on R in a quiet way [WINDOWS-1252?]– started whining at
>>> the moment it switched to the new type of simulation.
>>>
>>> The hardware technician [WINDOWS-1252?]I’ve asked about this issue does not have any idea and
>>> suspects R to do something peculiar that causes the noise. [WINDOWS-1252?]It’s not the
>>> mainboards fault (that has already been changed for another reason, and the
>>> behavior remains). I [WINDOWS-1252?]can’t definitely locate the source of the sound. I
>>> suspect that [WINDOWS-1252?]it’s the Power Unit, but there are so many parts close together
>>> that I am not really sure.
>>>
>>> I do not know enough about interactions of R with hardware to know whether it
>>> is even possible for anyone deeper into the matter to develop an idea what
>>> could be behind this behavior. For the moment, I can get rid of the whine by
>>> using the mainboard tool [WINDOWS-1252?]„AI [WINDOWS-1252?]Gear“ to reduce the [WINDOWS-1252?]processor’s speed from 2.4GHz
>>> to 1.7GHz when I want to concentrate [WINDOWS-1252?]– then the whine is gone (but the
>>> simulation is slower).
>> I haven't heard this from R, but on occasion I've had noisy CPUs.  I
>> suspect it's a case of some repetitive calculation leading to repetitive
>> electric fields which happen to cause physical resonance of some part of
>> your system.  That agrees with the observation that changing the speed
>> changed the noisiness.  Another way to get rid of it would be to change
>> the contents of the loop:  make it run faster or slower and the noise
>> should go away.
>>
>> Duncan Murdoch
>>
>>> Does anyone have any idea [WINDOWS-1252?]– or hints regarding what else I could think about ?
>>>
>>> Regards, Ulrike
>>>
>>> ******************************
>>> Prof. Dr. Ulrike Grömping
>>> Fachbereich II
>>> TFH Berlin
>>> Luxemburger Str. 10
>>> 13353 Berlin
>>> mail: [hidden email]
>>> www: www.tfh-berlin.de/~groemp/
>>> ******************************
>>>
>>> ------- End of Forwarded Message -------
>>>
>>> ******************************
>>> Prof. Dr. Ulrike Grömping
>>> Fachbereich II
>>> TFH Berlin
>>> Luxemburger Str. 10
>>> 13353 Berlin
>>> mail: [hidden email]
>>> www: www.tfh-berlin.de/~groemp/
>>> ******************************
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>     [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> [hidden email] mailing list
>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel 
> ------- End of Original Message -------
>  
>

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Re: Whine in dual core Windows PC if R uses full CPU capacity

elijah wright


> I think I've only come across it a couple of times, and didn't have any
> replication, so I don't know if they were unusual individuals or a
> design problem.  From your description of replacing the mb, it sounds as
> though it's a design problem -- unless as Uwe suggested, it's a power
> supply or some other part that you didn't replace.

I've seen this kind of resonance problem before, in a couple of different
computers with a couple of different mixes of hardware.

What usually comes out, eventually, is that some part in your system is
very poorly shielded and ends up reacting badly to other sorts of activity
in the system.

I've seen both video cards and audio boards involved in this kind of
problem, as well as the more sterotypical "dirty" power supply or
third-rate motherboard design.  I've also seen spurious current applied to
the expansion bus [by a functional, but marginal card] cause very similar
issues.

The only way to *really* trace down the problem is to swap the parts in
the machine for other, known-non-problematic parts.  This is expensive,
and takes a lot of time.

--elijah

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