Would Like Some Advise

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Would Like Some Advise

Philip
I need a new computer.  have a friend who is convinced that I have an aura about me that just kills electronic devices.

Does anyone out there have an opinion about Windows vs. Linux?  

I’m retired so this is just for my own enjoyment but I’m crunching some large National Weather Service files and will move on to baseball data and a few other things.  I’d like some advise about how much RAM and stuff like that.  I understand there is something called zones of computer memory. Can someone direct me to a good source so I can learn more?   I really don’t understand stuff like this.  Does anyone think I need to upgrade my wifi?

Thanks,
Philip
        [[alternative HTML version deleted]]

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Re: Would Like Some Advise

Duy Tran
I've worked with a 16 Gb laptop of RAM and it's been plenty for me. If you
need to work with larger data, I think you should look into packages like
sparklyr, which is basically dplyr running on a Spark cluster. Hope that
helps !
Duy


On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 9:09 AM Philip <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I need a new computer.  have a friend who is convinced that I have an aura
> about me that just kills electronic devices.
>
> Does anyone out there have an opinion about Windows vs. Linux?
>
> I’m retired so this is just for my own enjoyment but I’m crunching some
> large National Weather Service files and will move on to baseball data and
> a few other things.  I’d like some advise about how much RAM and stuff like
> that.  I understand there is something called zones of computer memory. Can
> someone direct me to a good source so I can learn more?   I really don’t
> understand stuff like this.  Does anyone think I need to upgrade my wifi?
>
> Thanks,
> Philip
>         [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>
> ______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>

        [[alternative HTML version deleted]]

______________________________________________
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and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
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Would Like Some Advise

R help mailing list-2
In reply to this post by Philip
Phillip,

The primary differences between Windows and Linux:

Windows attempts to monetize most of what you do on your computer in the same way that Facebook, Google, and other Social Media sites go, but Microsoft goes one step further, and they use the OS to monetize Windows Users. Linux on the other hand, being open source does not. Linux Distributions are free, and there are many to choose from. My recommendation on Distributions would be either PCLINUXOS with the KDE Plasma 5 Desktop interface, or Kubuntu which is Ubuntu with a KDE Desktop (instead of a Gnome, XFCE, Enlightenment, or Cinnamon) Desktop. The KDE Desktop is much more refined compared to the others - IMO. So, in a nutshell - Windows monetizes you thru the OS, Linux does not.

Windows Pros:
-Much greater variety of commercial software available and easier to install
-Familiar interface
-Better for people who want to play games
-Will not lock up as easily if the computer runs out of memory

Windows Cons:
-Less Secure in the sense that more nefarious players target windows
-Cost (not free)
-Microsoft Monetizes users of the OS
-less control of what is installed on the machine (there are commercial apps in Windows that Microsoft makes it hard to remove - like xbox, and crap like that)
-commercial software is typically more polished - like Microsoft Office

Linux Pros:
-Free
-More Secure - fewer nefarious players targeting the OS
-Free software available thru repositories make it easy to install much of what you need to include an office suit that is good (Libre Office, among others)
-Satisfaction in having learned something new - kinda outside the box
-User has MUCH more control
-Just a better experience - IMO

Linux Cons:
-Some hardware is still difficult to get working with Linux, but not much anymore (CAC card readers for instance, or remote scanners, and sometimes printers)
-Linux OS can lock up if a program consumes all of the physical memory... thought it'll usually recover once the application craps out (like R - had this happen many times before I built a new computer with 128GB)

-Linux is poor at memory management when a swap file becomes necessary (yes, it is true - sorry)


I prefer Linux, but because I have a work computer issued to me that runs Windows - I still use it. If it were not for that, I would not. I run Linux (PCLINUXOS 64 bit with KDE) on all my home computers, but can still dual boot into windows when I need to.

As for R - it runs fine on either.

As for memory - get 128GB, and you won't have to look back and worry... that is if you think there is even a remote possibility that you'll need more than 64 GB - which is likely if you are using R to process weather data.

r/
Gregg
AZ









‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Friday, August 28, 2020 7:08 AM, Philip <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I need a new computer. have a friend who is convinced that I have an aura about me that just kills electronic devices.
>

> Does anyone out there have an opinion about Windows vs. Linux?
>

> I’m retired so this is just for my own enjoyment but I’m crunching some large National Weather Service files and will move on to baseball data and a few other things. I’d like some advise about how much RAM and stuff like that. I understand there is something called zones of computer memory. Can someone direct me to a good source so I can learn more? I really don’t understand stuff like this. Does anyone think I need to upgrade my wifi?
>

> Thanks,
> Philip
> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>

> [hidden email] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.


______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.

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Re: Would Like Some Advise

Jeff Newmiller
Linux supports process parallel processing with copy-on-write memory sharing (i.e. forking via mclapply) that makes certain kinds of algorithm parallelization much more memory-efficient.

On August 28, 2020 7:45:12 AM PDT, Gregg via R-help <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Phillip,
>
>The primary differences between Windows and Linux:
>
>Windows attempts to monetize most of what you do on your computer in
>the same way that Facebook, Google, and other Social Media sites go,
>but Microsoft goes one step further, and they use the OS to monetize
>Windows Users. Linux on the other hand, being open source does not.
>Linux Distributions are free, and there are many to choose from. My
>recommendation on Distributions would be either PCLINUXOS with the KDE
>Plasma 5 Desktop interface, or Kubuntu which is Ubuntu with a KDE
>Desktop (instead of a Gnome, XFCE, Enlightenment, or Cinnamon) Desktop.
>The KDE Desktop is much more refined compared to the others - IMO. So,
>in a nutshell - Windows monetizes you thru the OS, Linux does not.
>
>Windows Pros:
>-Much greater variety of commercial software available and easier to
>install
>-Familiar interface
>-Better for people who want to play games
>-Will not lock up as easily if the computer runs out of memory
>
>Windows Cons:
>-Less Secure in the sense that more nefarious players target windows
>-Cost (not free)
>-Microsoft Monetizes users of the OS
>-less control of what is installed on the machine (there are commercial
>apps in Windows that Microsoft makes it hard to remove - like xbox, and
>crap like that)
>-commercial software is typically more polished - like Microsoft Office
>
>Linux Pros:
>-Free
>-More Secure - fewer nefarious players targeting the OS
>-Free software available thru repositories make it easy to install much
>of what you need to include an office suit that is good (Libre Office,
>among others)
>-Satisfaction in having learned something new - kinda outside the box
>-User has MUCH more control
>-Just a better experience - IMO
>
>Linux Cons:
>-Some hardware is still difficult to get working with Linux, but not
>much anymore (CAC card readers for instance, or remote scanners, and
>sometimes printers)
>-Linux OS can lock up if a program consumes all of the physical
>memory... thought it'll usually recover once the application craps out
>(like R - had this happen many times before I built a new computer with
>128GB)
>
>-Linux is poor at memory management when a swap file becomes necessary
>(yes, it is true - sorry)
>
>
>I prefer Linux, but because I have a work computer issued to me that
>runs Windows - I still use it. If it were not for that, I would not. I
>run Linux (PCLINUXOS 64 bit with KDE) on all my home computers, but can
>still dual boot into windows when I need to.
>
>As for R - it runs fine on either.
>
>As for memory - get 128GB, and you won't have to look back and worry...
>that is if you think there is even a remote possibility that you'll
>need more than 64 GB - which is likely if you are using R to process
>weather data.
>
>r/
>Gregg
>AZ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>On Friday, August 28, 2020 7:08 AM, Philip <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I need a new computer. have a friend who is convinced that I have an
>aura about me that just kills electronic devices.
>>
>
>> Does anyone out there have an opinion about Windows vs. Linux?
>>
>
>> I’m retired so this is just for my own enjoyment but I’m crunching
>some large National Weather Service files and will move on to baseball
>data and a few other things. I’d like some advise about how much RAM
>and stuff like that. I understand there is something called zones of
>computer memory. Can someone direct me to a good source so I can learn
>more? I really don’t understand stuff like this. Does anyone think I
>need to upgrade my wifi?
>>
>
>> Thanks,
>> Philip
>> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>>
>
>> [hidden email] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>> PLEASE do read the posting guide
>http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.

--
Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity.

______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
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Re: Would Like Some Advise

Jan Galkowski-2
In reply to this post by Philip
Hi Philip,

This ends up being a pretty personal decision, but here's my advice.  

I have used Windows of various flavors, and Linux in a couple of versions.  I have also used four or five Unixen, in addition to Linux. I've never spent a lot of time using a Mac, although in many instances most of my colleagues at companies have.  It's invariably a cubicle-like environment, so when they have problems, you know.   I also have a Chromebook, which is what I am using to write this, and while awaiting the arrival of a new Windows 10 system.

I have used R heavily on both Windows and Linux. On Linux I used it on my desktop, and I still use it on various large servers, now via RStudio, before from the shell. In the case of the servers, I don't have to maintain them, although I sometimes need to put up with peculiarities of their being maintained by others. (I rarely have sudo access, and sometimes someone has to install something for me, or help me install an R package, because the configuration of libraries on the server isn't quite what R expects.)

My experience with Linux desktops is that they seem fine initially, but then, inevitably, one day you need to upgrade to the next version of Ubuntu or whatever, and, for me, then the hell begins. In the last two times I did it, even with help of co-workers, it was so problematic, that I turned the desktop in, and stopped using the Linux.

Prior to my last Linux version, I also seemed to need to spend an increasingly large amount of time doing maintanence and moving things around ... I ran out of R library space once and had to move the entire installation elsewhere.  I did, but it took literally 2 days to figured it out.

Yes, if Linux runs out of physical store -- a moment which isn't always predictable -- R freezes.  Memory is of course an issue with Windows, but it simply does what, in my opinion, any modern system does and pages out to virtual memory, up to some limit of course.  (I always begin my  Windows R workspaces with 16 GB of RAM, and have expanded to 40 GB at times.)  I have just purchased a new Windows 10 system, was going to get 64 GB of RAM, but, for economy, settled on 32 GB. (I'm semi-retired as well.) My practice on the old Windows 7 system (with 16 GB RAM) was that I purchased a 256 GB SSD and put the paging file there.  That's not quite as good as RAM, but it's much better than a mechanical magnetic drive. My new Windows 10 has a 1 TB SSD.  I may move my old 256 GB SSD over to the new just as a side store, but will need to observe system cooling limits.  The new system is an 8 core Intel I7.

Windows updates are a pain, mostly because they almost always involve a reboot. I *loved* using my Windows 7 past end of support because there were no updates.  I always found Windows Office programs to be incredibly annoying, tolerating them because if you exchange documents with the rest of the world, some appreciable fraction will be Word and Excel spreadsheets.  That said, I got rid of all my official Microsoft Office and moved to Open Office, which is fine. I also primarily use LaTeX and MikTeX for my own documents authored, and often use R to generate tables and other things for including in the LaTeX.

On the other hand, when using Linux, ultimately YOU are responsible for keeping your libraries and everything else updated. When R updates, and new packages need to be updated, too, the update mechanism for Linux is recompiling from source. You sometimes need to do that for Windows, and Rtools gives you the way, but generally packages are in binary form. This means they are independent of the particular configuration of libraries you have on your system. That's great in my opinion. And easy.  Occasionally you'll find an R package which is source only and for some reason doesn't work with Rtools.  Then you are sometimes out of luck or need to run the source version of the package, if it's supported, which can be slow.  Sometimes, but rarely, source versions aren't supported.  I have also found in server environments that administrators are sometimes sloppy about keeping their gcc and other things updated. So at times I couldn't compile R packages because the admin on the server had an out-of-date gcc which produced a buggy version.
 
Whether Linux or Windows, I often use multi-core for the Monte Carlo calculations I run, whether bootstraps, random forests, or MCMC.  I have used JAGS quite a lot but I don't believe it supports multi-core (unless something has changed recently).  I use MCMCpack and others.

The media support for Windows is much better than Linux.  (At least Ubuntu now *has* some.) And it is work to keep Linux meda properly updated.  Still, I don't use Windows Media Player, preferring VLC.

And there are a wealth of programs and software available for Windows.  

No doubt, you need a good anti-virus and a good firewall. (Heck, I have that on my Google Pixel 2, too.)  I'm moving to the McAfee subscription my wife has for other systems in the house.

Note, while R is my primary computational world, by far, I do run Anaconda Python 3 from time to time.  It can be useful for preparing data for consumption by R, given raw files, many with glitches and mistakes.  But with the data.table package and other packages in R, I'm finding that's less and less true. The biggest headache of Python is that you need to keep its libraries updated.  I also have used Python some times just to access MATPLOTLIB.  I prefer R, though, because, like MATLAB, its numerics are better than Python's NUMPY and SCIPY.

As I said, I don't know Mac at all well.  But I do know that, when Mac released a new version, somehow the colleagues about me would often degenerate into a couple of days of grumbling and meeting with each other about how they got past or around some stumbling point when updating their systems.  Otherwise people seem to like them a lot.

I think all operating systems are deals with the Devil. It's what you put up with and deal with.

As you can see, I opted to go the Windows route again, for probably the next 10 years.

YMMV.

 - Jan

On Sat, Aug 29, 2020, at 06:00, [hidden email] wrote:

> From: "Philip" <[hidden email]>
> To: "r-help" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [R] Would Like Some Advise
> Message-ID: <1157A76A248944878C040D1FE0AE725C@OWNERPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I need a new computer.  have a friend who is convinced that I have an
> aura about me that just kills electronic devices.
>
> Does anyone out there have an opinion about Windows vs. Linux?  
>
> I’m retired so this is just for my own enjoyment but I’m crunching some
> large National Weather Service files and will move on to baseball data
> and a few other things.  I’d like some advise about how much RAM and
> stuff like that.  I understand there is something called zones of
> computer memory. Can someone direct me to a good source so I can learn
> more?   I really don’t understand stuff like this.  Does anyone think I
> need to upgrade my wifi?
>
> Thanks,
> Philip

______________________________________________
[hidden email] mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.